How do you figure out what to do in the beginning? High Elf Campaign

[johannlo]

I'm new to this wonderful mod and trying to get to grips with a High Elf campaign.

Unlike what I'm used to (and I'm a total war vet, all the way from shogun and unfortunately including empire LOL) the map is sparse and I have no idea of where anything is, not even where settlements are. The rules are not the same as 'normal' total war as I understand its good vs evil as opposed to the usual machievellian free for all.

After 6-7 turns I've taken a rebel settlement and have spies wandering around who have stumbled upon 1-2 towns - and they're my allies LOL shouldn't i know where their towns already are ?!?! but aside from that no action at all. I haven't ventured from my forest capital because I have no idea at all of whats around it!!!!

My question is: how are you supposed to get started in the beginning? Is it 'planned' that as HE your early game is turtle? Are you supposed to send out swarms of spies just to figure out where the settlements are?

Also, do merchants exist?

DId they get rid of the ransom/kill mechanic post battle? I've only had one siege. I HATE letting people go to increase chivalry, tradiaiontally all my generals are 7+ dread but do you have to do it as Elves???

Finally, is the whole castles vs towns things gone? as HE you don't have any castles in beginning and I don't see the option to convert.

Aside from that, whata wonderful mod!!!

[Hartassen]

Well first of all I recommend that you get the RR+RC mod along with the lore edition. (It can be found in the submod section of these forums)
Secondly I think high elves are pretty much turtle at the start, try to build up a good economy at first, create all the military units in rivendell (forgot real name but the one near misty mountains). Get the free upkeep slots filled in your cities to the west and along with a small army to try to get 1-2 of those rebel settlements that lie north and south of you in the west and try to get the one in the south past rivendell, it's a required settlement in lore edition to gain victory. After that I usually take my army from the west that I made to take the rebel settlements straight to isengard. I suggest you try and help rohan against isengard and after that you could help gondor take out mordor or even go for orcs of the misty mountains. It all depends on your style of play but that's pretty much how I did it. I think isengard, orcs and mordor are required to die for you to win as HE in lore edition of rr+rc.

Good luck and hope I helped.

P.S. Castles do exist but there is little difference between an upgraded citadel and a huge city in terms of unit recruitment and such.
The lore edition of rr+rc contains a mod called be evil which among other things allows the "good" to execut the evil without reputation penalties. However you still gain dread, (I usually have elrond being called "the merciless", poor ootmm)

Another tip is to get a diplomat in the west and get trade rights/alliance/military access/maps with dwarves and convince eriador to give you maps aswell (since you start as allies with trade rights/access already)

[johannlo]

Thanks for that. Basically without knowing the map I don't even know which direction the baddies are going to come from so my TW instincts are all jangling lol.

- So you basically don't have to worry about the west, and the baddies swarm you from rivendell direction?
- I assume you have to send out diplomats ASAP to secure good relations w/ gondor, rohan, dwarves?

[MAMO72]

As He you are in a comfortable starting position a part Imladris, no enemies around you, Eriador starts as your ally and the dwarves will become as well if give them something in exchange. First step is conquer the rebel settlement north of Mithlond that probably is called Lunelaith or something similar; then, pumping taxation to the highest level, you can build up your weak economy quite relaxed, starting from smallest settlements first (less money to do that). Build as many as possible watch towers you can along your borders to survey your allies. South of your main domains you have to conquest the rebel settlements of Eryn Vorn, Lond Angren and Lond Daer; doing that you will cut three possible target to the Isengard's expansion that surely happens in the first 30/40 turns. Initially you must be quick, you won't need full stack to do that, the mighty of HE will allow you to move with an Half stack, most of them light archers.
Your worst position is in the east, your capital, Imladris, where you will be soon attacked by OOMM; don't worry about that a good army and some watch-towers will let you control the situation. I think that here a good strategy is to take mitheitel region west of Imladris and Ost-in-Ghil south as soon as you can, it would be better if the last one was conquered first by OOMM which you are at war yet instead of Isengard, delay the war against them for the first 30/40 turns if you can. When you will be pretty comfortable with your situation, I think you have to manage two full stacks: one south against Isengard to help Rohan (make alliance with them and give Byrig, Dunland once you have taken) and the second one by sea to help Gondor under siege by both Mordor and Harad.
Always sack the settlements you conquer and destroy all the evil buildings to make money for your upgrades. As Elf faction there will be no great differencies between cities and castles. Take care about Trolls, they are the strongest evil units I have seen, arrows don't work against them especially against Olog-Hai. Merchants doesn't exists. Don't waste your money upgrading armories. I always play without any sub-mods and no cheats. Enjoy!!!

[Bela]

As He you are in a comfortable starting position a part Imladris, no enemies around you, Eriador starts as your ally and the dwarves will become as well if give them something in exchange. First step is conquer the rebel settlement north of Mithlond that probably is called Lunelaith or something similar; then, pumping taxation to the highest level, you can build up your weak economy quite relaxed, starting from smallest settlements first (less money to do that). Build as many as possible watch towers you can along your borders to survey your allies. South of your main domains you have to conquest the rebel settlements of Eryn Vorn, Lond Angren and Lond Daer; doing that you will cut three possible target to the Isengard's expansion that surely happens in the first 30/40 turns. Initially you must be quick, you won't need full stack to do that, the mighty of HE will allow you to move with an Half stack, most of them light archers.
Your worst position is in the east, your capital, Imladris, where you will be soon attacked by OOMM; don't worry about that a good army and some watch-towers will let you control the situation. I think that here a good strategy is to take mitheitel region west of Imladris and Ost-in-Ghil south as soon as you can, it would be better if the last one was conquered first by OOMM which you are at war yet instead of Isengard, delay the war against them for the first 30/40 turns if you can. When you will be pretty comfortable with your situation, I think you have to manage two full stacks: one south against Isengard to help Rohan (make alliance with them and give Byrig, Dunland once you have taken) and the second one by sea to help Gondor under siege by both Mordor and Harad.
Always sack the settlements you conquer and destroy all the evil buildings to make money for your upgrades. As Elf faction there will be no great differencies between cities and castles. Take care about Trolls, they are the strongest evil units I have seen, arrows don't work against them especially against Olog-Hai. Merchants doesn't exists. Don't waste your money upgrading armories. I always play without any sub-mods and no cheats. Enjoy!!!

Perfect advise, I just would like to add that I usually take Goblin Town in the mountains from the orcs very early in the campaign (it gives you a very good income and cuts the orcs in two). If it's done, you will meet small armies from the orcs coming from the south but a half stack can easily beat them. In the north the dwarves and the Silvan comrades usually take care of the remaining orc settlements and armies, you don't have to worry about them.
After strengthening Goblin TOwn, you can have a look at Isengard. Attack them with armies from the western territories, while conquer one or two Isengard towns near Isengard itself and leave a strong garrison in it (it will keep the Isengard armies at bay and makes your western conquer easier). After destroying Isengard, the hardest part is almost done.

After it you can either help Rohan, Gondor, the SIlvan Elves or Dale and the dwarves. Your economy will be strong, your military power supreme, it's all up to you. Good luck!

[axnsan]

Just check jan's map

[johannlo]

cheers. I've done the mod you recommended - now I find costs are waaaay higher (1200 for light archers??) I assume this is correct for the RR+RC Lore mod?

[Magicana]

Also, it is best to move your capital to the West so that the corruption figure is reduced.

[johannlo]

Yeah just played around a bit more. I actually am going to restart as I had no idea the orcs came directly over the mountains and they walked into my empty rivendell LOL - mountain = impassable terrain right? apparently not....

I'm having real trouble (not difficulty due to nerfed AI but just WTF in general) adjusting to the lack of melee and emphasis on archers, if archers were like this in M2TW people would be screaming blue murder but I guess its elves, its LOTR so it makes sense. Very not used to skirmishing with foot archers though (gimme light cav and horse archers lol), very much a TW traditionalist hammer and anvil (ie fix with spears flank with heavy cav) man. I'm using RR and RC + lore as everyone seems to think its the way to go.

Also I'm finding that a lot oft he time the AI sits around and lets you pincushion them, even more so than in vanilla M2TW.

Finally, my spies found me some of the southern settlements but every damned time I get enough troops together the Eriador beats me to it. TWICE now I've seiged a town with them - once I joined, once they joined - and both times THEY Got the town. Is there a logic in who gets it if an allied army wins? (mostkills? most people in town square? etc.)

Nevertheless its an awesome mod and probably one of the best I've ever seen , thanks all for your advice

[axnsan]

Yeah just played around a bit more. I actually am going to restart as I had no idea the orcs came directly over the mountains and they walked into my empty rivendell LOL - mountain = impassable terrain right? apparently not....

Ever heard of the term "mountain pass" ?

I'm having real trouble (not difficulty due to nerfed AI but just WTF in general) adjusting to the lack of melee and emphasis on archers, if archers were like this in M2TW people would be screaming blue murder but I guess its elves, its LOTR so it makes sense. Very not used to skirmishing with foot archers though (gimme light cav and horse archers lol), very much a TW traditionalist hammer and anvil (ie fix with spears flank with heavy cav) man. I'm using RR and RC + lore as everyone seems to think its the way to go.

Nobody forces you to play elves so stop whining about being archer-based. You want cavalry? Go to rohan

Also I'm finding that a lot oft he time the AI sits around and lets you pincushion them, even more so than in vanilla M2TW.

Try the latest version of ReallyBadAI.

Finally, my spies found me some of the southern settlements but every damned time I get enough troops together the Eriador beats me to it. TWICE now I've seiged a town with them - once I joined, once they joined - and both times THEY Got the town. Is there a logic in who gets it if an allied army wins? (mostkills? most people in town square? etc.)

Who assaults first gets the town.
If they assault and you are reinforcement you could as well just not fight... you won't get the town anyway.

[larsverw]

ok Quick question. With the RC + Lore edition when is it possible to make eldar elves?? and Mithlond swords men??

[axnsan]

Short answer:



Long answer :
about turn 60

[larsverw]

hm oke thnx and when for the heavy infantery Silvan elves?? also @ turn 60

[axnsan]

Just play and see

[larsverw]

i've played this game alot With the RC/ RR Lore edition but didn't got ony eldar units at turn 100?? Thats why

[axnsan]

Did you get the advanced barracks event?

[larsverw]

nope i've upgraded all at the best and did not got it... gonna reinstall and play again maybe because it's messed up with some other dubmods:S thnx for your reply!

ok back on topic i think its best to make a big army go to the goblins wipe them out then the only problem is Isengard and futher ingame Mordor, help some factions to regain the lands, Voila Middle Earth is a safe land again.

[Magicana]

You could try modifying the events file.

(It is located in c:\program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign. Change the lines starting with "Date" to a small number. Keep the formatting of the file, and BACKUP before you change anything. No need to change any line starting with .

[johannlo]

axnsan, just making a few observations as a noob. Nobody is whinging

[axnsan]

Then why do you keep going "give me cavalry!!11!!!1!!" ?