Take a step back

[Imperator Romani]

Does arguing over religion get anyone anywhere here? Or is it just basically pointless because everyone goes over the same things over and over. Is anyone convincing anyone else of anything, or is it pointless?

[Hippolord]

No.

Thanks to religous debates, I've learned alot.

[Watchman]

Also, debating about stuff has its share of intrinsic value.

[Playfishpaste]

No.

Thanks to religous debates, I've learned alot.

[basics]

PureInfantryWins,

Debating religion is good but only so if measured by something of value, something that has no guile or dubiety, so that that may be used in a destructive way. It has fallen to us that we have such an object within which are the secrets to what is true and also what is false. All else stands or falls by what it says and of whom says it and this we call the Old Testament part of the Bible.

Without it, we would never have known of Jesus, never mind religion, and with it we can establish what turned into the New Testament of the Bible, judged on the veracity of the Old. Debates on these threads amount to belief in what this book and subsequently what both books say, or no belief at all. But then that is the starting point of all men never mind what they think or believe.

To them still at the starting point, they will then obviously begin with no religion, a little religion or a zealousness for religion and then stop because that is where their arguments stop. Them that have been dealt the hand of God on them in accordance with what the combined books say find themselves beyond the mind of the religions they once held and beyond the religious.

So debate is good because it is that which makes for enquiry and enquiry that leads to the reading and of course the hearing whether from the outside or internally. When that point is reached debate is overtaken by experience given or not. It is what separates a people according to it's words yet can be a stumbling block to most.

[Aetius]

The more people turn away from religion, the better. Its like teaching people how to read. An ardous process, but one that benefits society.

Thats why this is important.

[Tigrul]

Some people have changed their opinions on these fora, and others have refined their views. Change can happen thanks to religious debates. But most of the time, it's just a matter of annoying each other. Of course, it depends on the participants. While I have annoyed you and you have annoyed me quite a lot, I can't say the same for all groups of people. I have had very entertaining discussions with christians, most notably with cfmonkey45, discussions in which I've been quite civil, and I've also had discussions in which I've been very annoyed and in response answered very rudely, most notably with carpathian wolf, and now with you.

But anyway... I have managed to contribute to the changing of someone's mind, someone who has abandoned christianity and told me that I had to do with it as well, and I have also managed to refine my atheist views, to see where they were flawed and to correct the situation.

[Helm]

It's good for making yourself think you're right for believing whatever it is you believe in. Seeing as a lot of people on here are clearly wrong.

[Watchman]

[Imperator Romani]

And a question. Why do atheists want to convert religious people so much. I can understand why we do because we believe it affects us for eternity, but what's the main reason for atheists? I don't mean for this to be offensive or anything, just curious.

[The Count(er)]

And a question. Why do atheists want to convert religious people so much. I can understand why we do because we believe it affects us for eternity, but what's the main reason for atheists? I don't mean for this to be offensive or anything, just curious.

I've argued with you quite a few times, but I never once tried to convert you, you may note that I never once said "God does not exist. Join us!" or anything similar, just trying to understand why you think what you do. I'm pretty sure that what most of us are doing, as well as justifying our own ideas when challenged.

[Playfishpaste]

And a question. Why do atheists want to convert religious people so much. I can understand why we do because we believe it affects us for eternity, but what's the main reason for atheists? I don't mean for this to be offensive or anything, just curious.

Some atheists (albeit quite few, since religion is naturally more evangelical) don't really want to see religious morals taking over things, or have religious ideas influence some things in the public or their children. It's all a matter of morality, if you feel your morals are threatened by someone else, you will naturally want to stop that person's morality from succeeding.

[Theseus1234]

And a question. Why do atheists want to convert religious people so much. I can understand why we do because we believe it affects us for eternity, but what's the main reason for atheists? I don't mean for this to be offensive or anything, just curious.

Well for me I don't want to convert, it's just when some people *cough* WU'HUA'LIA'HU'I'HOPONOO *cough* post things that are biased, ridiculous, or go against simple logic, I'm inclined to respond with what I think is right. I can tolerate someone who believes in god, as long as that someone doesn't try to convert me or says something retarded because of god.


...just my 2 cents

[The Dude]

And a question. Why do atheists want to convert religious people so much. I can understand why we do because we believe it affects us for eternity, but what's the main reason for atheists? I don't mean for this to be offensive or anything, just curious.

We want humanity to better itself. One of the most obvious ways to do that is by leaving religion behind.

I make faithful of the faithless consistently in personal conversations--- atheism does not survive long in my gaze.

Oh yes with your magnificent stories about god the glutton. They are laughable at best.

[IrishHitman]

And a question. Why do atheists want to convert religious people so much. I can understand why we do because we believe it affects us for eternity, but what's the main reason for atheists? I don't mean for this to be offensive or anything, just curious.

We don't go recruiting, we just destroy the arguments of theists to the best extent possible...

When was the last time you heard a decent argument about Christianity over Judaism, not based on hearsay and prejudice?

[Tigrul]

Atheists don't really want to convert people.
I'd rather people not become atheists unless they are able to become so through their own choosing and reasoning.

I do wish, however, to point out all of the unfairness in the bible, the immorality, the immorality of wishing such a religion to be true, and, of course, I will always point out that it is irrational to believe in something which you can't back up by proof.

Maybe you mistake our attitude of showing why religious belief is irrational with a wish to convert people, when in fact it's merely a case of applying definitions and letting people know about them.

[Helm]

Well if you call trying to make someone think about the subject rationally a conversion, though most people with religious faith will flat out refuse to do so. There's just no penetrating the kind of mental conditioniong formed from early childhood onwards.

[Vladimir Lenin]

The question you bring up is interesting. I would have to say arguing over religions and doctrine is pointless.

That being said, there is a great difference between merely being contentious and talking about doctrine and religion. Some of the greatest insights I've had into theology have come from both explaining my thoughts and listening to those of others.

Look at the name of what we call discussion boards like this, forums. A forum is a public place for assembly and open discussion. That's the ideal that most of us have when we come here, I think. It is just a few argumentative types that keep causing conflict and rehashing old issues.

I am not merely just blaming atheist posters, we have several theist posters who can come in with a chip on their shoulder, and that's the real shame. It limits both sides, theists come out feeling that atheists are attacking their beliefs, they feel belittled and become bitter, leading to further conflict. Atheists become frustrated by theists who merely restate arguments and rehash through old issues, this leads to them attacking what they believe is redundant.

Arguing is pointless, but it is the discussion that this forum allows us to have that lets us make true progress in understanding our own beliefs, and those of other members.

[Denny Crane!]

This topic comes up every 2 months I think. Ho Hum.

If people want to do it, or choose to do it, then why is there a problem with it? I suspect people who object to the debating have an agenda somewhere.

[Poach]

Debating in an attempt to prove a point against religion against the religious or proving a point for religion against atheists is wholly pointless, both are so heavily entrenched in their positions that were God to tell the faithful he no longer existed they'd hail that as proof he did and the atheists would uphold it as a victory on their part or call it a cleverly crafted ruse.

Debating in order to expand ones understanding of a subject is a noble and entirely worthwhile persuit.