Wasted vote?

[Plan C]

So I'm having a chat with my missus and, shockingly, we both agree that David Cameron is a slimeball and it's a bloody shame that we only have the choice between him and the "one eyed Scotsman''

(I might agree but intentional censor violations not allowed)

But do we?

I suggested that we go out and vote for LibDems this time around because I genuinely respect Nick Clegg of late (and Vince Cable) and his straight-forward appeals for honesty - albeit naiive - set him apart from the mainstream.

Now, my missus reckons that voting LibDems is a waste of her vote; I almost smacked her when I heard this but I had a few chats around and many others seem to think in a similar fashion.

What do you reckon? Is it actually worth it to express your opinion knowing that it's potentially a lost cause or is it better to resign oneself to the lesser () evil?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Heh. Yeah, the Lib dems and honesty, David Cameron a slimeball. I can see just how much thought you put into this.

There's no such thing as a wasted vote if you are voting the way you genuinely want to.

[Plan C]

Heh. Yeah, the Lib dems and honesty, David Cameron a slimeball. I can see just how much thought you put into this.

Surely even you must agree that DC is amusingly sleazy. I should be staunchly tory given my circumstances but the man still strikes me as a waster. Also I share the view that both tories and labour have been hardly proactive lately, fire-fighting and jousting for votes summarising most of their activity. I find both principally wanting.

There's no such thing as a wasted vote if you are voting the way you genuinely want to.

That's what I think but it appears that not many people have the resolve to understand what they vote for, are generally confused by politics and with their more-or-less basic outlook (so common in Britain today) they either go with the flow or don't bother voting at all.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Surely even you must agree that DC is amusingly sleazy.

Not really. What are you basing it on?

[Plan C]

It's my overall impression of the man, I think he lacks class.

Just a taster - DC names The Eton Rifles as one of his favourite tracks. Paul Weller's response sums up the popular perception - "Which part of it didn't he get?"

[Juvenal]

It's my overall impression of the man, I think he lacks class.

Your definition of class is rather individual.

David Cameron

David Cameron, the son of stockbroker Ian Donald Cameron and his wife, Mary Fleur Mount, the second daughter of Sir William Mount, 2nd Baronet.[9] His father was born at Blairmore House, near Huntly in Scotland,[10] which was built by Cameron's grandfather Ewen Donald Cameron's maternal grandfather, Alexander Geddes[11] who had made a fortune in the grain business in Chicago and had returned to Scotland in the 1880s.[12] The Cameron family were originally from the Inverness area of the Scottish Highlands.[13]

His father's family had a very long history in the world of finance: David Cameron's great-grandfather Arthur Francis Levita (brother of Sir Cecil Levita)[14] of Panmure Gordon stockbrokers and his great-great-grandfather Sir Ewen Cameron,[13] London head of the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank played key roles in discussions led by the Rothschilds with the Japanese central banker (later Prime Minister) Takahashi Korekiyo concerning the selling of war bonds during the Russo-Japanese war.[15]

His great-grandfather Ewen Allan Cameron, a senior partner with Panmure Gordon stockbrokers was also a notable figure in the financial world serving on the Council for Foreign Bondholders[16] and the Committee for Chinese Bondholders set up by the then Governor of the Bank of England Montagu Norman in November, 1935.[17] His father and grandfather, Ian Donald and Ewen Donald, also worked for Panmure Gordon stockbrokers; Ian Donald also served as a director of the estate agency John D. Wood. [3]

Cameron is a direct descendant of King William IV (4th great-grandfather) and his mistress Dorothea Jordan (and thus 5th cousin, twice removed of Queen Elizabeth II) through his father's maternal grandmother Stephanie Levita, daughter of the society surgeon Sir Alfred Cooper who was also father of the statesman and author Duff Cooper, grandfather of the publisher and man of letters Rupert Hart-Davis and historian John Julius Norwich, and great-grandfather of the TV presenter Adam Hart-Davis and journalist/writer Duff Hart-Davis (David Cameron's second cousins once removed). His mother is first cousin of the writer and political commentator Ferdinand Mount[18].

At the age of seven, Cameron attended the independent Heatherdown Preparatory School at Winkfield in Berkshire, which counted Prince Andrew and Prince Edward among its alumni.

Cameron was educated at Eton College, often described as the most famous independent school in the world.[20]

Cameron studied at the University of Oxford, where he read for a B.A. in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics (PPE) at Brasenose College.

If David Cameron had any more class he would need to drag it along behind him on a hand-cart!

[removeduser_487563287433]

It's my overall impression of the man, I think he lacks class.

Well, why? Are you actually letting your vote determined by a vague feeling you can't even put into words? I only say because I don't believe people like that should have the vote.

[Denny Crane!]

Odd attitude to take just because your missus votes differently I reckon btw.

The best way to change the current two party revolving door system is vote in whichever party is likely to do some electoral reform and get in a type of Proportional representation otherwise we'll forever cycle between Tories and Labour and I don't think anyone wants labour to get in ever again so its a worthwhile thought. And boom I finally think of a debate I can have with RomeKb8.

[Angrychris]

I would love to see electoral reforms while im alive in a developed country.

[Plan C]

I would love to see electoral reforms while im alive in a developed country.

In what way?

Odd attitude to take just because your missus votes differently I reckon btw

It's not the fact that she votes differently but rather her apathy.

The best way to change the current two party revolving door system is vote in whichever party is likely to do some electoral reform and get in a type of Proportional representation otherwise we'll forever cycle between Tories and Labour and I don't think anyone wants labour to get in ever again so its a worthwhile thought. And boom I finally think of a debate I can have with RomeKb8.

I agree it's worth a try but first we must agree on the "type" of that system :-)

[Angrychris]

Any meaningful way especialy opening a multiparty system that doesnt lean towards the wealthy.

[Plan C]

I dont think the problems lies with the wealthy but with the popular focus on the efforts to get wealthy; there are many ways to be fulfilled alas British society mostly mistakes financial gain for happiness and therein lies the gist as they say.

[Angrychris]

In america the politicians are well off and rely on the support of the parties wealth as well as big bussiness endorsements. This is what limits the focus on other (better) canidates and gives all attention on the 2 parties and the cycle just continues to repeat its self. The rich get richer and political lineages are created.

[Aetius]

In america the politicians are well off and rely on the support of the parties wealth as well as big bussiness endorsements. This is what limits the focus on other (better) canidates and gives all attention on the 2 parties and the cycle just continues to repeat its self. The rich get richer and political lineages are created.

That AND winner takes all systems.

[6th Vigil]

All parties deceive and lie. They all clamour for the vote and try to curry public favour with desperate measures. Thats politics. To believe it could be any different is quite naive as is the belief that the Lib Dems are any different to the main two parties in this regard.

[Plan C]

All parties deceive and lie. They all clamour for the vote and try to curry public favour with desperate measures. Thats politics. To believe it could be any different is quite naive as is the belief that the Lib Dems are any different to the main two parties in this regard.

I clearly pass for a child, sorry - I didn't make myself too clear initially.
The reason Nick Clegg has temporarily gained my attention is that LibDems are actually the only party with a fairly precise set of figures and despite their ever-puny size seem more involved in the political debate than I ever remember them. This also translates to increased support. I appreciate that they do most of what they do purely to gain influence but it just so happens that their current position represents what I think is right.

[6th Vigil]

I clearly pass for a child, sorry - I didn't make myself too clear initially.
The reason Nick Clegg has temporarily gained my attention is that LibDems are actually the only party with a fairly precise set of figures and despite their ever-puny size seem more involved in the political debate than I ever remember them. This also translates to increased support. I appreciate that they do most of what they do purely to gain influence but it just so happens that their current position represents what I think is right.

Forgive me if i sounded a bit harsh i was just stating that for everyone.

The Lib dems are quite attractive even to me as they seem more like an outsider to me, a dark horse if you will. However, there are some of their policies that prevent me from voting for them such as their Pro-EU policy and the proportional representation reform.

In answer to the actual question of this thread, which i had left out, if you really desire the party you vote for to win then voting for the Lib dems is a wasted vote- unless of course loads of people vote for them in your constituency but how likely is that? If you just really agree with their principles and policies then your vote can never be truly wasted as it is an expression of your political opinion.

[Denny Crane!]

Aye I don't quite understand the intricacies of all the different systems but I do hate the fact that we'll only ever cycle between the same two parties.

So how can someone not want reform, be it PR or other? But I'll be damned if I'd vote for the lib dems like the poster above because of their pro EU policy.

[Juvenal]

"Wasted Vote" has been the standard canvasser's response to people thinking of voting Liberal (or these days LibDem). Don't be taken in.

It works because LibDem voters are more likely to switch to another party than Labour of Tory voters. This is because the Labour and Tory parties have always had a clear "core-constituency" of people who feel that the party represents their interests and well-being.

In good times, the Tory mantra of low-taxes and deregulation was attractive to those with wealth they didn't want to lose and more importantly those aspiring to wealth.

In bad times, the Labour promise to look after the poor was attractive to people who feared becoming destitute.

But now all bets are off. Labour has embraced Big Business and ditched Clause IV, while the Tories are trying to appear all touchy-feely and are vague about what they intend to cut when they win the next election.

The LibDems are not necessarily better than their rivals, but at least they are free of the strong vested interests at the core of the main parties.

I would like to see the stranglehold of the party-machines broken. I would like an MP to hold their first loyalty to their constituency - not their party. So ignore the bleating about the Wasted Vote. Try to research the candidates and vote for the best one, regardless of party.

[Helm]

I've always voted for the Libdems anyway. Cameron seems alright for a Tory I guess, it's inevitable they will be voted in again at some point so they as well be voted in with a leader who seems halfway palatable. It seems Labour have long had their day either way.