Baktria and Parthia

[tinceiri]

Right now, I think that these two factions are the easiest ones to play as. I know that they both need to worry about each other in addition to the Seleucid Empire (as well as the huge independent armies in this region) but none of these seem to be a major concern.

The biggest problem with Parthia and Baktria is that these two factions become easy to play as once you've taken a city or two from the other faction. This always shifts the dynamics of power grossly in the favor of the faction that has managed to do this, and there is nothing to keep an ensuing conquering spree in check.

Therefore, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to add another faction to this area. It could be a proto-Indo-Greek faction, or it could simply be local Indian faction with the generic Indian units. Much later on, either faction could develop the prototypes for the unique units that came from the various Indo-Greek kingdoms.

This would make life tougher for the Seleucids in this region, but historically they had more than just the Parthians and the Bactrians to worry about. I also think this would provide a unique opportunity for the mod to show us give us an idea of what Hellenism was like in India, and that would help build on the overall theme behind this mod.

[jakobh94]

Good idea, but the question is, which faction are you going to remove for this one to emerge? Im thinking Scythia or independent greeks ...
It should go pretty quik to merge different units. A rooster for the Indian faction could be done, and I could work up a Indian mini mod, replacing independent greeks

[RedFox]

We could make the Scythians unplayable and rename them to Nomads. Then we'll put the new faction "Nomads" to fill all that space and balance things out.

[tinceiri]

We could make the Scythians unplayable and rename them to Nomads. Then we'll put the new faction "Nomads" to fill all that space and balance things out.

I think that this would be a really good idea. While I like playing as the Scythians from time to time, they're admittedly a "free card" faction that doesn't need to worry about anything. They have no rivals, and everything they attack has no defense against large numbers of cheap horse archers. You build horse archers with them, and then you slaughter phalanxes. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

I have one more suggestion, if it interests you. If you would like to keep a playable faction in that area without going too far North, then I would recommend adding the Bosporan Kingdom. They would at the heighth of their power during this period, and they would be a perfect candidate to take over this region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosporan_Kingdom
http://www.pontos.dk/news_calendar/news/bosporan-conference/background-paper

The Bosphoran Kingdom were an interesting group of Greeks, and they had an army that was very unique. If I'm remembering this correctly, they didn't have good phalanxes. In fact, they were downright horrible. What they tended to do, however, was use their vast amounts of wealth to rely on mercenaries in the same way that Carthage did. They had Hellenized (later Romanized) Germanic, Thracian, and proto-Slavic infantry that were among the best in the known world. And that was in addition to Sarmatian mercenary cavalry, which tended to be expensive.

This was a very flexible army, and it came from a highly developed region. They would have been a lot more powerful if the Sarmatians and other regional powers did not keep them in check.

With this faction, you could still keep the hordes of Sarmatians as aggressive, independent cities and then remove the imposed barrier in the Caucus to Armenia and Pontus. Pontus and Armenia could then become contenders for this region, and since they've got archers and horse archers it would be harder to simply spam horse archers (like you can as the Scythians) and win.

[jakobh94]

Sounds really good, well it must be the modding mind ^^

[Spartan 666]

The question of an Indian faction has always interested me, especially when I proposed the idea to use a different map that left spain out and expanded more eastwards (something like the RoP one) using spain as this Indian faction, but that's too much work with the time available.

Anyway, I think it's a good idea, especially for the WotD campaing, in which the Seleucids can expand with no rivals eastwards and gather the resources to crush anyone in the west. The best faction to be replaced in my opinion are indeed Scythians. And I think they can be an Indian faction and not a "nomad" faction, since there are not many slaves settlements in that area: there are two between the Aral Sea and the Caspian (too many, thinking of moving one), Kangha, and then 3 in India. I don't consider Alexandropolis and Pura because a "cushion" area between India and the Seleucids is good.

[tinceiri]

Is there a limit on how many playable factions? Or are we talking about the total number of factions?

If we're talking about the former, then you could always consider making the Seleucid Empire non-playable in the Imperial Campaign and then giving them more infastructure and money to work with. In other words, you could transform them into an unholy nightmare...

Actually, that's probably a bad suggestion.

[RedFox]

The total number of factions is limited to 20+1(slave). Since all the faction slots are filled in DTW, another faction will need to be replaced in order to get a new one.

[unDa]

India is not helennistic state. but idea with Bosphoran kingdom imho very interesting.

[tinceiri]

India is not helennistic state. but idea with Bosphoran kingdom imho very interesting.

India itself was not, but there were several "Indo-Greek" kings who perpetuated Hellenistic culture through their various kingdoms in India. Here are the four that are the best-known:

Pushkalavati
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushkalavati

Sagala (This is not an option with the current map.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagala

Sirkap a.k.a. Taxila
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirkap

Alexandria of the Caucasus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_in_the_Caucasus

[jakobh94]

And which one of these would you like to see as the faction taking a place in the east, and which territories should they have?

[tinceiri]

Well, that would have to be left up to RedFox. I think that Taxila would be his best bet, though, as he could leave them with a large city-state to work with.

[aznflea]

umm the saka rauka would fill that gap excellently IMO. they start on the north eastern most point and they are nomadic so they should balance out baktria and parthia quite nicely

[RedFox]

This faction would also need to fill the gap of Scythia..

[aznflea]

lets have a faction called the "angry centaurs" and give them the steppes

[RedFox]

How about Flying Felchmuffins? That sounds tons more exiting. We could even add Lemuria in the middle of the Indian ocean for their capitals..

[aznflea]

hmmmm that is an epic idea rfox! maybe we could even replace the rebel faction with protoss!

im seriously wetting my pants for starcraft 2.

[RedFox]

Can't have SC without Zerg.

[Spartan 666]

Starcraft and Zergs? Nooo...a circle-shaped continent in the middle of the Indian Ocean named Halo with its city named High Clarity! With an unbeatable garrison of Spartans!



Seriously, the question for the Bosphoran Kingdom can be solved this way: using the independent Greeks (faction germans) with some AoR tricks. They already have two cities there, Pantikapaion and Kersonesos, we could move Jaxamatae or what the hell it is called to the south in the place of the ancient Phanagorea and give it to germans. Then, we could add some characters with a “of Bosphorus” or something surname.

[aznflea]

truth be told id prefer the argyraspides to the spartan phalanx.

maybe just replace scythia with the bosphorans. then maybe you can see a faction that incorporates infantry and horse archers because if i remember the bosphorans are greeks.