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Thread: Prototype of Middle-earth (version 2.0 with Elves)

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  1. #1

    Default Prototype of Middle-earth (version 2.0 with Elves)

    I was inspired by discussion about real historic prototypes of Middle-earth lands, so I decided to make a more serious concept. Here it is:

    Age on Earth: Late antiquity - Medieval
    Age on Arda: Third

    New map with Elves - below the map is my arguments of placement, please read them before critique:


    Old one without Elves:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    MORDOR – in First Age in place of Mordor was Sea of Helkor, so I looked at map of Europe and – voila – we have The Black Sea on it. Black! Why one would call the sea black? Of course - because in ancient times there was an evil kingdom located.
    And after end of Ages it would be only reasonable to sunk Mordor to prevent rise of evil and exterminate all still living orks (remember - orks are afraid of water).

    GONDOR – Gondor are associated with Rome to me, so I choosed Western border of Western Roman Empire befote its fall and Eastern border of Eastern Roman Empire before its fall, and got a somthing interesting, lets see:
    Minas Tirith, once mighty city with 7 levels and Rome – once mighty city on 7 hills.
    Osgiliath, key city of Empire and Constantinople – key city of Empire.
    Pelargir, city of seafarers and brave marines and Venice – city of seafarers and brave sailors.
    Dol Amroth, autonomous region of Swan knights, fighters against Coarsairs of Umbar and Kingdom of Sicily, ruled by brave and mighty Norman knights, fighters against Muslims of North Africa.

    ERIADOR – the lost realm of Arnor and modern Spain, France and England – lost provinces of Western Roman Empire.

    HARAD – large Empire of the South, threat of Gondor and Ottoman Empire – greatest threat of Eastern Roman Empire and Catholic Europe. In details:
    Harondor – lost regions of Southern Gondor and Asia Minor and Near East – lost regions of Eastern Roman Empire;
    Umbar – base of Corsairs of Umbar and Tunis – base of Barbary corsairs.
    Haradwaith – land of deserts and Arabic deserts.

    KHAND – land of heavy Eastern raiders and Persia, birthplace of catafracts.

    RHUN – land of raiders and axemen of Eastern plains around sea of Rhun and raider/axemen hordes of Cumans around Caspian Sea.

    DALE – Northern land of trade between Dwarwes and Gondor and Novgorod – Northern land of trade between Vikings and Eastern Roman Empire.
    Long lake – center of Dale trade and lake Ilmen – center of Novgorodian trade.

    DWARWES – fierce axemen of Northern mountains and Vikings – fierce axemen of Scandinavian fyords and mountains.

    RHOVANION – wild woodland inhabited by bear totemists and Principialities of Balts and Slavs located in wild woodland and honoring a bear as their totem.

    ROHAN – Rohirim once were a wild Northmen in Rhovanion, pushed away by Eastern hordes and gained their new homeland in Gondor as allies of Gondor and Germanic people Goths, pushed from Eastern Europe by Huns and resettled in Roman empire as an allies (foederati). Attila the Hun was defeated by Romans only with help of the foederati Goths, like Minas Tirith was secured only with help of Rohirim.
    Besides the most known king of Goths is Theodoric the Great, and most known king of Rohan is - guess who? Theoden.

    DUNLAND (combined with ANGMAR and OofMM) – land inhabited by wild men, cause of fall of Arnor and threat to Gondor and various wild Germanic tribes (first of all – Vandals), cause of fall of Western Roman Empire.

    ELVES - my placement of Elves is not based on historical geography but rather on geography of languages. Elven languages are mainly based on Velsh anf Finnish - there is a common point of those two - Gaelic and Finno Ugric speakers are very ancient inhabitants of Europe - older than for example speakers of Germanic or Slavic languages. So its very similar to Elves - the oldest inhabitants of Middle-earth. Next my step - finding out all last "bastions" of Gaelic and Finno Ugric languages and here it is:

    High Elves - Gaelic speaking lands + last speakers of Celtic in central France as Rivendell.
    (High Elves are leaving Middle-earth / Gaelic languages are unfortunately dying)
    Silvan Elves - Finno Ugric speaking lands - Finns, Estonians and Karelians in North and Hungarians in South.
    (Silvan Elves are stying in Middle-earth / Finno Ugric languages are storng and living)

    PS And I'm sorry for my bad English..
    Last edited by Æsir; June 30, 2009 at 06:53 PM.

    "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." George Orwell


  2. #2
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Very nice but, Elves?


  3. #3
    MasterBigAb's Avatar Valar Morghulis
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    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Quote Originally Posted by ccllnply View Post
    Very nice but, Elves?
    Well that would be usa than right ?!?
    Good map, but i think tolkien didn't think like that
    Last edited by MasterBigAb; June 30, 2009 at 11:11 AM.

  4. #4
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBigAb View Post
    Well that would be usa than right ?!?
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  5. #5
    Lioncross's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Mordor is the Black Sea


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  6. #6

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Lioncross View Post
    Mordor is the Black Sea
    Yes and in First Age there was Sea of Helkar. So nothing to wonder about!

    "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." George Orwell


  7. #7

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Damn well thought out there an interesting idea i wonder how the english feel about being hobbits

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Firez View Post
    Damn well thought out there an interesting idea i wonder how the english feel about being hobbits
    Whats wrong with hobbits?
    On Tolkien's maps, the Shire is located at about the same position as England is on modern European maps and has been cited as an example of Merry England ideology. Throughout the narrative, Tolkien also implies numerous points of similarity between the two, such as weather, agriculture and dialect.

    In particular, the Shire corresponds to the West Midlands region of England, extending to Worcestershire (where Tolkien located his "home" in particular, his mother's family being from Evesham), Shropshire, Warwickshire, Herefordshire and Staffordshire, as argued by Tom Shippey forming a "cultural unit with deep roots in history"
    (from Wiki)

    "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." George Orwell


  9. #9

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Firez View Post
    Damn well thought out there an interesting idea i wonder how the english feel about being hobbits

    Before the "Is Tolkien Racist?" thread was closed, I do believe I managed to severely piss off a French member of the forum by saying that on a metaphorical level the French are the same as hobbits. I mean, a load of fat, hairy, unattractive midgets that do nothing but eat, sleep and can't fight for .

    Now I say to you sir, that while there may be resemblances to England in terms of the weather etc, are the points I have made above more associated wiz ze french?

    To the person who is using/used my TATW signature - who are you? You never left a name with the rep comment, and I'm really curious

  10. #10

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Firez View Post
    Damn well thought out there an interesting idea i wonder how the english feel about being hobbits

    as long as the short drink tea they are English enough for me....and they smoke pipes

    not sure about the lack of a hobbit empire tho........unless France and Spain (as it were) are hobbit colonies in mainland europe then its all good


    The sun never sets on the English Empire........

  11. #11

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Btw, playing Gondor I feel myself sometimes like I'm playing Byzantine from Stainless Steel.

  12. #12
    bentlemp's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    That was interesting and well thought out...
    Just call me BENTLE, everyone else does...


  13. #13

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Yeah, deserves +rep just for the effort.

  14. #14
    abbews's Avatar The Screen Door Slams
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    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Haha made me laugh

    But you have a point Would Valinor be outer space then? Not America

    +rep

  15. #15

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Huh that kinda makes sense, except the elves, but I totally get the rest
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    I think a lot of Arabs and Africans are gonna be pissed their lands are compared with Harad. If you live near a sizable population of them I would suggest you low run to your car.... :XDDD

  17. #17
    Elfhelm's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Imagine being dumped in the Barrow Downs!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    Where are the Elves? And why Harad's territory so big?

    Other than these, very nice .

  19. #19

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    I think I've seen this map somewhere else. Is this your take on it?

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  20. #20

    Default Re: Prototype of Middle-earth

    I think I know how to implement elves so tonight there will be a version 2.0 of this map

    "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." George Orwell


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