We can now make our own early era infantry

[DanimalKingdom]

Hello all,

Now that CA has released new models, we can now look into making new early period line infantry and grenadiers. With the Dutch Blue Guard model and the Russian foot guard model (first model with a proper mitre cap) we can do, for example british line infantry of the Marlburian period, Swedish Northern War era infantry, and proper British grenadiers with mitre caps instead of bearskins, as seen in this contemporary painting:

http://britishbattles.homestead.com/...eim_palace.jpg

Does anyone else want to see some proper early period units rather than 1780s line infantry in the 1700s?

[DanimalKingdom]

Also, I'm betting the European Wars team are interested in these new models. They can now make some proper infantry units if they want to.

I know jarnomiedema has already made some new skins, (see link below) and they look great

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...241923&page=16

[Barry Lyndon]

Yeah, I'm hoping there will be three skins for line infantry: 1: 1700-1733, 2: 1734-1766, 3: 1767-1800. (Or something like that). That way we will not be forced to use infantry of 1799:s model in 1710, etc.

[DanimalKingdom]

Yeah, I'm hoping there will be three skins for line infantry: 1: 1700-1733, 2: 1734-1766, 3: 1767-1800. (Or something like that). That way we will not be forced to use infantry of 1799:s model in 1710, etc.

yeah agreed. To be honest i was expecting CA to do provide early and late models anyway but alas no.

Also, i thought it was pretty cheeky to include mitre capped british grenadiers in all the promotional artwork, and then not even include them in the game!

see:

[jarnomiedema]

While in theory your idea is right, there's a very apparent problem with it.. Technically, the people who didn't buy the DLC shouldn't have access to these models. They have, but the units simply aren't unlocked in their game. If modders unlock these units and retexture them, they still have access (in some way or another) to these units, which isn't the way it should be..

There's another debate going on about this as well by the way: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271950

Personally, I think the idea is great. You won't believe how many historical source images from the early 18th century I've seen where the infantry looks more like the pikemen in-game than the regular line infantry. The Blue Guard model (as it stands right now) could indeed function as some sort of an early line infantry and artillery model.

But yeah, there's the whole debate about what we can and what we can't use in our mods. It would definitely be helpful if CA provided some perspective on this. For instance, it is definitely illegal to make the DLC units themselves available through a mod, so that people who don't have the DLC can still play with those units. However, to what extent would taking the unit model (which everyone has, although some have it unlocked and others don't), retexturing it and giving it another purpose be illegal?

It's a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, placed on a slippery slope in treacherous territory..

[DanimalKingdom]

Hi jarnomiedema, thanks for lending your weight to the debate!

My feeling is this: using models that should really only be available to people who have purchased DLC (which, to be fair is only £1.99 or that respective price in your local currency) is essentially wrong. But if the models are already there, and modding is permitted, then is it no less wrong than modding anything else? To be fair we would be creating new units, not making Dutch guards and such available to non-payers.

It's a grey area, and would be solved by mutual trust and respect between developers and modders. But I think CA should have included proper grenadiers anyway, so to make them using a DLC model shouldn't be considered wrong when on the same mild level CA could be accused of some false advertising by promoting the game with these units and then not including them!

I'm sure no-one here wants to piss off CA, and they're doing a great job. It would be nice to hear from CA on this one...

[erasmus777]

While in theory your idea is right, there's a very apparent problem with it.. Technically, the people who didn't buy the DLC shouldn't have access to these models. They have, but the units simply aren't unlocked in their game. If modders unlock these units and retexture them, they still have access (in some way or another) to these units, which isn't the way it should be..

There's another debate going on about this as well by the way: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271950

Personally, I think the idea is great. You won't believe how many historical source images from the early 18th century I've seen where the infantry looks more like the pikemen in-game than the regular line infantry. The Blue Guard model (as it stands right now) could indeed function as some sort of an early line infantry and artillery model.

But yeah, there's the whole debate about what we can and what we can't use in our mods. It would definitely be helpful if CA provided some perspective on this. For instance, it is definitely illegal to make the DLC units themselves available through a mod, so that people who don't have the DLC can still play with those units. However, to what extent would taking the unit model (which everyone has, although some have it unlocked and others don't), retexturing it and giving it another purpose be illegal?

It's a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, placed on a slippery slope in treacherous territory..

Given the fact that DLC is locked and CA had that ability in beginning, I would say the use of any unlocked models is permissible, especially if they are used in a different context. In the US (and I would imagine most Western countries are similar), copyright law allows for "fair use." Fair use is fuzzy, but one of the measures is whether or not you are injuring the copyright holder (e.g., causing them to lose income). Children who use a recorded song in a school play are not generating revenue with someone else's work so that would be counted "fair use." A TV show that uses an artist's music is making money, so they do not qualify for "fair use."

If you take the Death's Head Hussar model and make a hungarian unit out of it, then it's hard to argue you're causing any injury to CA. By hacking the DLC and distributing the models, however, you are costing them money. So that's a big difference. Also, they've encrypted DLC showing it could have been done for SF units. To me that says that everything not encrypted is usable, as long as it is a part (using the model for a different unit, for example).

In this case, I think the Wild Geese make for the best free model we have for early units.

[joedreck]

Also, i thought it was pretty cheeky to include mitre capped british grenadiers in all the promotional artwork, and then not even include them in the game!

DLC !!!