Curia Hostilia: Consulate of Marcellus/Caesar

**chaplain118** · July 10, 2009, 04:39 PM

So I'm to understand that a man who has been negligent of his duty and responsible for the deaths of thousands when he could have easily prevented them does not deserve death as a punishment?

Perhaps you'd like to speak on behalf of this man's defense, Senator Regulus, when the courts are opened.

**Raglan** · July 10, 2009, 04:39 PM

Senator Regulus, i understand and agree with you.

However the laws of Rome state that it is for the Preator and only the Preator to decide the punishment.

To the Preator, i would say that you have every right, as is written in our constitution to decide the punishment...

Article V

Concerning crime and punishment

The Praetors shall have sole jurisdiction over the legal system. For a crime to be tried in their court, a petitioner must first seek out a praetor and lay out an accusation. The Praetor shall then call a jury of five citizens to witness the trial and provide judgement on innocence or guilt.

The trial shall proceed with the prosecution and defense’s arguments, the jury’s decision, and the judgement.

The Praetor, after receiving a guilty verdict, may make use of any punishment he sees fit, among these being –

Death – by strangulation, arena fight, or Tarpiean Rock (reserved for high crimes)

Flagellation – Public beating and torture

Exile – Banishment from Roman lands or certain Roman lands for a set time.

Imprisonment

Confiscation – the confiscation of lands or monies for the public treasury, or for reparations

The Republic shall hold certain crimes to be especially heinous and deserving of death or other strict sentence, including but not limited to:

Ambitus – Canvassing, or illegal influence on voters, buying votes.

Majestas – Treason

Falsum – False witness

... However i think it a harse punishment for failing in good manner. IF it is proven that he failed delibertly then that would be different.

I would therefore ask you to keep this in mind IF he is found quilty and allow death by suicide - a much more honorable way for his family.

I think few would argue in favour of Tarpien Rock....

**chaplain118** · July 10, 2009, 04:48 PM

While it is true that I decide the punishment, the trial is there to persuade me whether or not said man is guilty. I intend to prove his guilt before the people, and I intend to do it so that there may be no dissenting voice crying of foul play. He will be judged, and he shall have a defense and a prosecutor as per the decorum of court.

Now take this man to the cells of the basilica and keep him under arrest!

Pallas turned and opened the doors, allowing two unarmed lictors to come in. When the two entered, they promptly marched the prisoner away. As the three men disappeared intothe city, Pallas shut the doors once more.

**M D** · July 11, 2009, 06:26 AM

"Before this Term ends, good Senators I would like to propose a small motion. The people of ROme need entertainment that isn't execution of traitors and enemies as that is very few and far between. What they need is common entertainment, something that will prevent them from siding so much with politicians and having street-fights against others. What does this house say as a sort of end-term gift to the people?"

**Raglan** · July 11, 2009, 06:30 AM

it is a good idea, however i would like to know the means of entertainment you intend and how much it shall cost. Privately funded games are different but when it is public money then there should be a greater awareness of its cost

I should also like to here the Queastors thoughts about this

**Snowball** · July 11, 2009, 08:33 AM

Marcus asked the censor for the floor, and stood up to speak.
While am positive to the idea of giving the people entertainment, i must say the following.

I ask the senate not to forget that our Republic is at war, and we know not yet when it will end, or who will win. I question whether this is the right time to begin such public works. Rather we should start discussing how we can end this war, how we can once again bring peace to our republic, and safety to our people.

When the Carthaginian holdings in Iberia are under our control, what should we do then? I for one believe we should offer the Carthaginians a cease fire. Before any of you jump at me, i wish to remind you of our relative success so far. And how catastrophic it could become should we foolhardily continue the war.

I ask the Senate, offer peace to the Carthaginians, let us show the world that we are the better men. Do not let greed become our downfall, and do not send our young men to Africa.

Should they however refuse our offer, then we have made our effort to be diplomatic...and must then consider how to bring down the Carthaginian Empire in its entirety.

I yield the floor.

**Elendil of Númenor** · July 11, 2009, 08:10 PM

Regulus stood.

"I agree with Senator Clarus. Our people have fought long enough. The destruction of Carthage must wait! We have to take Punic Iberia and incorporate into our Republic. It must be well defended, as it is cut off from Rome and threatened by barbaric tribes and Carthaginian forces on all sides. And no other man would be more suitable for the job than Consul Marcellus. He knows Iberia well, and knows what is to be done. I propose the following motion.

I. After conquering Corduba, Rome shall send a diplomatic envoy to Carthage and propose a ceasefire.

II. Should Carthage accept, Consul Marcellus shall be given the task of incorporating the lands he had just taken in Iberia into a Province: Provincia Hispania.

III. Marcellus shall be temporarily appointed Proconsul of the Province, and he will act as governor of Corduba and Carthago Nova for 1 year - until the next Promagistrate elections.

IV. Should Carthage not accept ceasefire, we shall continue debating on the Bella Punica.

I would also like to add the following to the motion:

(V.) A small envoy will be sent out to search for Consul Caesar, and see what has become of him."

Regulus sat down.

**stormer** · July 11, 2009, 10:49 PM

I second this motion.

**KoS** · July 11, 2009, 11:28 PM

I also support Regulus' motion.

**Elendil of Númenor** · July 11, 2009, 11:57 PM

The motion has been seconded. I ask the Praetor to put it to vote.

**Xavier Dragnesi** · July 12, 2009, 01:30 PM

Senators, news from Iberia,

Corduba is taken. However, as expected the battle was very tough. The enemies troops were all round and many, were desperate, and inflicted some heavy casualties on our Roman army.

The siege battle took place in the afternoon of cloudy day. My army of some 24630 men, comprising of the army left from the last battle, as well as some Celtiberian swordsmen and Iberian auxilia, put three rams to use against the city of Corduba with its garrison of 21170 men led by Theages. His army was made up of Caetrati light infantry, Pheoni archers, and a number of Bela cavalry. As soon as these statistics were known to me, I knew that this was not going to be an easy battle. The rams advance on the city from three directions to try to split their troops.

However, their archers were ready for the rams, and one was set on fire a few metres out from the wall, so I had to quickly withdraw the unit operating it. Despite this, the other two were preserved, and one manned by the pikemen, reached a gate and battered it down, while the other of Iberian auxilia took down another section of the wall. Both were greeted by a hail of javelins and archers as the enemy sought to weaken them. The pikemen resisted well with their phalanx formation, but the Iberians suffered many casualties, so much that I had to bring up reinforcements to get them into the city. When the enemy general saw the pikemen had failed to be weakened, he quite foolishly called forward a mass charge with all his cavalry. What ensued was a slaughter of the Bela cavalry.

The units reinforcing the Iberian infantry, then managed to break through the enemy defence, and came to the rescue of the pikemen, who were now being surrounded by Caetrati infantry. While these reinforcing units hit the Caetrati in the rear and flanks, I rode the equites and my own bodyguard into the city and took out the archers who were causing quite some damage to our own troops. Then, together, our infantry and cavalry proceeded to the city centre, were we ensnared Theages' bodyguard and there he was killed by some revengeful Celtiberian soldiers. The city was ours, but at quite a high cost.

Our men suffered 7590 men killed, and 1330 wounded, though the wounded will mostly lived to fight again. We killed some 19280 enemy soldiers, with some 1890 remaining as wounded, all now prisoners of war. Corduba is relatively subdued, though it did take an extermination for that to happen. I have still received no word from my Consular colleague, so I fear he is either lost or somehow captured. I hope that this victory, though relatively costly, is acceptable to this august body, and I send out my most heartfelt condolences to those families who may have lost sons, fathers or brothers.

Marcus Claudius Marcellus
Consul of the Res Publica Romani

**M D** · July 12, 2009, 02:54 PM

"Great News from Iberia I say!"

**apple** · July 12, 2009, 08:31 PM

Yes indeed great news.

Remember senators that this war has already cost us thousands of roman life's. It is time that we bring a end to it.
Carthage will not oppose us now when her spanish provinces are gone, conquered by the legions of Rome.

**Raglan** · July 13, 2009, 04:30 AM

I hope not, i also hope that Carthage accepts the peace offer.

But i will speak a word of caution, i do not think Carthage will be so easierly swayed. Would we be?

We should be ready in case Carthage is determined to continue, it is unwise to make threats that we cannot carry through.

**apple** · July 13, 2009, 11:46 AM

Yes that is true senator Asellio, but how much is Roman citizen worth? Would we offer Carthage a region to end the war, to spare the life's of roman citizens?
We are elected to serve the republic and that means that we have to serve it's people. Without them how much power would we have, how could the city be as large as prosperous as it it without the ordinary citizen?
I am here to act in the best of the people and that is what I am going to do.

Edit my 4000th post!

**Raglan** · July 13, 2009, 12:01 PM

ooc; has anyone actually thought about making an offer, since corduba (ironically one of the places i visited on my holiday) has now been captured and the vote is passed (unless a tribune veto's it)

ic; indeed senator Cato, however the proposition that has been out to a vote calls for a peace where everyone takes what they hold. This will, if accepted, give us a new provience in Iberia.

I also think it time, after the report from Consul Marcellus to send our diplomatic offer.

But this will take time and it seems prudent to discuss our options if it fails, as i find it likely to.

Sicily and the Punic isle' are i'm assuming not to be discussed in any trade, thus it leaves us with the options of continuing the war or trading our new conquests for peace.

Before the senate shouts me down i am unconvinced as to the value of either option, it will have proven a pointless waste of life to give away Iberia which we have just conquered, let alone be a massive blow to morale in the legions - would you want to fight for something that will be given away again?

Whereas the follow through of this war, has no garentee of success (in rp terms - i know most of us could probably pull it of) and will cost us many many thousands of lifes.

If there is a third option i do not see it, except perhaps to prey to the Gods the envoy will be well recieved.

**Elendil of Númenor** · July 13, 2009, 01:50 PM

Senators, my motion has passed. I ask the Senate to nominate someone to travel to Carthage and speak with their Senate on our behalf. Also, we will need someone to travel to the Punic Isles and see what has become of Caesar.