Meanwhile in Iraq: Iraqis rejoice as U.S. troops leave Baghdad

[manofarms89]

BAGHDAD (Reuters) – U.S. troops pulled out of Baghdad on Monday, triggering jubilation among hopeful that foreign military occupation is ending six years after the invasion to depose Saddam Hussein. Iraqi soldiers paraded through the streets in their American-made vehicles draped with Iraqi flags and flowers, chanting, dancing and calling the pullout a "victory."
One drove a motorcycle with party streamers on it; another, a Humvee with a garland of plastic roses on the grill.
U.S. troops must pull out of Iraq's urban centers by midnight on Tuesday under a bilateral security pact that also requires all troops to leave the country by 2012.
All had left the capital by Monday afternoon, Major-General in Staff, Abboud Qanbar, head of Iraqi security forces in Baghdad, told Reuters.
Another Iraqi official who would not be named, said some units in cities outside Baghdad would leave at the last minute. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said 30 bases remained to be handed over. There are still some 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.
Addressing military leaders in Baghdad, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki said: "Our sovereignty has started and ... we should move forward to build a modern state and enjoy security which has been achieved."
Many Iraqis were elated even though they feared militants might use the withdrawal as an opportunity to step up attacks.
"The American forces' withdrawal is something awaited by every Iraqi: male, female, young and old. I consider June 30 to be like a wedding," said Ahmed Hameed, 38, near an ice cream bar in Baghdad's upmarket Karrada district.
"This is proof Iraqis are capable of controlling security inside Iraq," added the recent returnee from exile in Egypt.
The government has declared June 30 a national holiday, "National Sovereignty Day."
"BIG JOY"
A spate of bombings in recent days, including two of the deadliest for more than a year that killed 150 people between them, have raised fears militants will try to step up the pace of attacks.
Yet few Iraqis see that as reason for the Americans to stay.
"It is a big joy to see them leaving," said Abu Hassan, 60, a shop owner. "There might be some more attacks because of struggles between the different parties, but Iraqis are controlling security now. It's up to our forces now."
At a ceremony outside central Baghdad's old defense ministry building, the last Baghdad location to be handed over by U.S. forces, a military band played while soldiers and army college students paraded through a square festooned with Iraqi flags.
"Baghdad is safe, Iraq is safe. We are moving to sovereignty in secure steps," Qanbar said at the ceremony, which unusually was not cordoned off, despite the presence of the commander of U.S. forces in Baghdad, Major-General Daniel Bolger.
U.S. troops will remain at two giant bases near Baghdad airport that are defined as non-urban, in case the Iraqis need to draw on their firepower.
"They'll ask us for help whenever they need something but they've got a lot of capability. This is their country. It only makes sense they should secure their own cities," Bolger said.
More than six years of U.S. occupation and the orgy of sectarian violence it unleashed have left most Iraqis feeling ambivalent about U.S. forces.
Many complain their lives have improved little since then, with daily struggles caused by power cuts and water shortages.
"They did a good job getting rid of that tyrant, Saddam, and we thank them for that, but it's really time for them to leave," said Talib Rasheed, 70, sitting outside in one of Baghdad's leafier suburbs. "Maybe they could leave us some electricity?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090629/ts_nm/us_iraq

So in the coming months I guess we'll see if it was all worth it.

[nopasties]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090629/ts_nm/us_iraq

So in the coming months I guess we'll see if it was all worth it.

It will take decades or centuries to really get a clear answer on whether the war was worth it. For the cost of this war, it will be a long time to prove worth.

[manofarms89]

It will take decades or centuries to really get a clear answer on whether the war was worth it. For the cost of this war, it will be a long time to prove worth.

true, but what i was getting at was whether or not insurgent attacks will increase

[PointOfViewGun]

It will take decades or centuries to really get a clear answer on whether the war was worth it. For the cost of this war, it will be a long time to prove worth.

In that time line having no war would be a much much worthwhile option.

[Heinz Guderian]

The only winners are the Shia and Iran.

Thank you very much America.

[s.rwitt]

I think it's a good thing, but too early. Hopefully I'm wrong.


About the latter of course.

[Heinz Guderian]

I think it's a good thing, but too early. Hopefully I'm wrong.


About the latter of course.

I always hope you are wrong and you often dont disappoint me.

[s.rwitt]

[il padrino]

naah,i say they'll return sooner or later...

[Heathen Hammer]

naah,i say they'll return sooner or later...

They might want to, but not be able to. The whole war is one big epic fail.

[BlackPirate]

How the war was won?When during 2006-7 USA lost control of vast territories inside Iraq(including 80% of Baghdad)Shunis faced Shias in a bloody battle on who is going to control all this territory.Shias methodically butchered Shunis leaving them only 25% of Baghdad"wining"the civil war.Afterwards Shunis fed up with the massacres decided to cooperate with US isolated more extreme elements while Shia extremists were defeated in a series of campaigns during the Spring of 2008.Today Violence continuous to claim hundreds of lives every month but the situation is controlable by the government.But bloody events such as suicide bombings and perhaps ethnic and religious fightings will continoue to exist for the years to come

[Swordthrower]

How the war was won?When during 2006-7 USA lost control of vast territories inside Iraq(including 80% of Baghdad)Shunis faced Shias in a bloody battle on who is going to control all this territory.Shias methodically butchered Shunis leaving them only 25% of Baghdad"wining"the civil war.Afterwards Shunis fed up with the massacres decided to cooperate with US isolated more extreme elements while Shia extremists were defeated in a series of campaigns during the Spring of 2008.Today Violence continuous to claim hundreds of lives every month but the situation is controlable by the government.But bloody events such as suicide bombings and perhaps ethnic and religious fightings will continoue to exist for the years to come

I spent every single day of 2007 in Baghdad and know you are ting mate.

Incdientally:
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...7/170427.shtml
Like everything else in life, it's more a matter of what one wants to believe, or waiting for someone else to believe something in order for one to know what one is against.

[mrmouth]

First off, the 'celebration' of US troops leaving, was a military parade...


In the coming months, some will prognosticate on what it was all worth, but it wont mean a hill of beans. Our involvement in Iraq doesn't end for decades.

It has been just over six years. We have had to deal with uncooperative neighbors, looking the other way, and outright supporting insurgencies. Developing, and sharing new IED 'technology', on their behalf. Little support from the world community, to the detriment of the Iraqi people, and our own troops. And yet I still sense that some people don't recognize just how difficult this has been, and that they actually wish Iraq to be a failure, even though the consequences are unimaginable, for everyone.

If you actually sit down and look at this war as a whole, from an educated view point, it is amazing it has gotten to the point, where other places in the world, such as Mexico, are now far more violent than Iraq. Even given the current escalation.


At any point, the world could have put aside its differences, and supported, not the going to war, but the Iraqi people, and US troops. Instead, all we got was political brinkmanship, and it led to the deaths of a lot of people. While I don't hold the previous administration in high regard for putting us in this situation, I hold the Nations of the world, who did nothing but criticize, while people died, in even less regard. And it goes beyond committing troops. They could have helped in any number of ways. Condemnation for Nations that support the wholesale slaughter of Iraqis, is one way. After all, many of these same nations are quick to point the finger when the US is wrong...

If the world had a problem with people dying, understandably so, they should have gotten off the bench, strapped it down, and helped do something about it.

[BlackPirate]

First off, the 'celebration' of US troops leaving, was a military parade...


In the coming months, some will prognosticate on what it was all worth, but it wont mean a hill of beans. Our involvement in Iraq doesn't end for decades.

It has been just over six years. We have had to deal with uncooperative neighbors, looking the other way, and outright supporting insurgencies. Developing, and sharing new IED 'technology', on their behalf. Little support from the world community, to the detriment of the Iraqi people, and our own troops. And yet I still sense that some people don't recognize just how difficult this has been, and that they actually wish Iraq to be a failure, even though the consequences are unimaginable, for everyone.

If you actually sit down and look at this war as a whole, from an educated view point, it is amazing it has gotten to the point, where other places in the world, such as Mexico, are now far more violent than Iraq. Even given the current escalation.


At any point, the world could have put aside its differences, and supported, not the going to war, but the Iraqi people, and US troops. Instead, all we got was political brinkmanship, and it led to the deaths of a lot of people. While I don't hold the previous administration in high regard for putting us in this situation, I hold the Nations of the world, who did nothing but criticize, while people died, in even less regard. And it goes beyond committing troops. They could have helped in any number of ways. Condemnation for Nations that support the wholesale slaughter of Iraqis, is one way. After all, many of these same nations are quick to point the finger when the US is wrong...

If the world had a problem with people dying, understandably so, they should have gotten off the bench, strapped it down, and helped do something about it.

Actually i am glad that thousands of US soldiers died in that war.Why?US hater?Nop.It is just a sense that this war is going to give some lessons to future US administrations.If you remember correctly since Reagan there was a sense in US(and in the rest of the world)that you can solve all problems militarily. Just remember how many Top-Gun movies appeared during this period.With the death of those soldiers US governments might remember Machiavelli's words "you can start a war whenever you like but you cant stop it whenever you want it".

You might trust US government but i dont.If those gyes overthrowned Saddam and didnt face any problems they would invade Iran(i remember how many analysts were certain that this is going to be done 1 or two years after the fall of Saddam).This means that today US would fought a huge war in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan....

[2-D Ron]

First off, the 'celebration' of US troops leaving, was a military parade...


In the coming months, some will prognosticate on what it was all worth, but it wont mean a hill of beans. Our involvement in Iraq doesn't end for decades.

It has been just over six years. We have had to deal with uncooperative neighbors, looking the other way, and outright supporting insurgencies. Developing, and sharing new IED 'technology', on their behalf. Little support from the world community, to the detriment of the Iraqi people, and our own troops. And yet I still sense that some people don't recognize just how difficult this has been, and that they actually wish Iraq to be a failure, even though the consequences are unimaginable, for everyone.

If you actually sit down and look at this war as a whole, from an educated view point, it is amazing it has gotten to the point, where other places in the world, such as Mexico, are now far more violent than Iraq. Even given the current escalation.


At any point, the world could have put aside its differences, and supported, not the going to war, but the Iraqi people, and US troops. Instead, all we got was political brinkmanship, and it led to the deaths of a lot of people. While I don't hold the previous administration in high regard for putting us in this situation, I hold the Nations of the world, who did nothing but criticize, while people died, in even less regard. And it goes beyond committing troops. They could have helped in any number of ways. Condemnation for Nations that support the wholesale slaughter of Iraqis, is one way. After all, many of these same nations are quick to point the finger when the US is wrong...

If the world had a problem with people dying, understandably so, they should have gotten off the bench, strapped it down, and helped do something about it.

The war was illegal from the get go, demanding people to put aside their moral judgement to support a War our boys should never of fought in the first place and was never agreed upon by the majority are never forgotten and only makes bitterness more obvious to see.
Wars of Aggression always end the same way.

tactic like this is really getting old. Against war in iraq = automatic wanting america to fail. Using "do u want america to succeed" to shut critics up is nothing new, seen enough of that crap on Fox news. Seriously, you can support the troops and America but at the same time question the motivation of this war. That's what critical thinking is all about. I mean even the American military itself is pubilshing studies on examining the various errors of this war from the start; same for the american intelligence community. Are they all wanting america to fail?

Yes, I say we eatz them.

[Heinz Guderian]

I strongly disagree with the Iraq War. I wrote a poem about it back in 2003.

What have we done to the world?
Look what we've done.
What about all the peace,
That you pledge your only son?
What about flowering fields?
Is there a time?
What about all the dreams,
That you said was yours and mine?

Did you ever stop to notice,
All the children dead from war?
Did you ever stop to notice,
The crying Earth the weeping shores?

I think this poem still rings true today.

[mrmouth]

Thats sweet.

Have you ever thought to write poems about events other than, a war you didn't agree with? Say, the various genocides that have taken place during our lifetimes? I mean, I guess I'm just trying to say, it is amazing that you would concentrate on something the US is involved in...

[Heinz Guderian]

Thats sweet.

Have you ever thought to write poems about events other than, a war you didn't agree with? Say, the various genocides that have taken place during our lifetimes? I mean, I guess I'm just trying to say, it is amazing that you would concentrate on something the US is involved in...

you seem so rational.

Just stop pressurin' me, stop pressurin' me, make me wanna scream

[Heinz Guderian]

Thats sweet.

Have you ever thought to write poems about events other than, a war you didn't agree with? Say, the various genocides that have taken place during our lifetimes? I mean, I guess I'm just trying to say, it is amazing that you would concentrate on something the US is involved in...

you seem so rational.

I've written about the horrors of the Soviet Union too:

I was wandering in the rain
Mask of life, feelin' insane
Swift and sudden fall from grace
Sunny days seem far away
Kremlin's shadow belittlin' me
Stalin's tomb won't let me be
On and on and on it came
Wish the rain would just let me

So you see, its not just America

[s.rwitt]

How the war was won?When during 2006-7 USA lost control of vast territories inside Iraq(including 80% of Baghdad)Shunis faced Shias in a bloody battle on who is going to control all this territory.Shias methodically butchered Shunis leaving them only 25% of Baghdad"wining"the civil war.Afterwards Shunis fed up with the massacres decided to cooperate with US isolated more extreme elements while Shia extremists were defeated in a series of campaigns during the Spring of 2008.Today Violence continuous to claim hundreds of lives every month but the situation is controlable by the government.But bloody events such as suicide bombings and perhaps ethnic and religious fightings will continoue to exist for the years to come

The population turned against the insurgency, which is a deathnail to any insurgency anywhere at anytime. It's just that it usually takes about 20 years longer than it did in this case. But you won't see that on the news.