differences between some units

[Ichon]

I was going thru looking at some units trying to decide where my next campaign should be and I was looking at Armenia and Pontus mostly because even after playing a campaign there I have never dominated the Black Sea area, always get distracted with the larger empire to the south.

A few units seem very similar but the costs are very different. I hadn't paid attention before but for instance- Leukaspides and Pezoi for Pontus. Exact same stats except armour and defense skill 1 off each but same total defense. The recruitment costs and maintenance are really different however with the maintence being half for one over the other. What unit differences is this trying to indicate?

I will probably edit the unit files myself to try and substantiate the 2x maintenance cost by adding a bit more defense to make buying the more more expensive one justified. Just was curious if there was a reason for this or not initially... 1 more turn to produce for twice the cost doesn't seem like its enough reason.

Armenia has something almost the same but at least there one unit has an extra trait and 2 higher defense though everything else is the same.

[despot_of_rhodes]

It´s not only Pontus that has Leucaspides in it´s roster; in fact, most of the successor factions do have them. The reasons for their cost/upkeep compared with the "normal" phalangitai are:

- the fresh recruited phalangitai unit needs 2 turns in recruitment, since there is some training needed to be able to act as a solid macedonian style phalanx
- the Leucaspides symbolise the veterans, who have got slightly better stats then the former ones; their recruitment costs are only 1 turn, since they are allready well drilled and their recruitment isn´t that expensive due to their skills ( they do not need to be trained again ).
- but their upkeep is high to symbolize the fact, that when they´re called to arms, many men are missed on the fields etc.

[Ichon]

It´s not only Pontus that has Leucaspides in it´s roster; in fact, most of the successor factions do have them. The reasons for their cost/upkeep compared with the "normal" phalangitai are:

- the fresh recruited phalangitai unit needs 2 turns in recruitment, since there is some training needed to be able to act as a solid macedonian style phalanx
- the Leucaspides symbolise the veterans, who have got slightly better stats then the former ones; their recruitment costs are only 1 turn, since they are allready well drilled and their recruitment isn´t that expensive due to their skills ( they do not need to be trained again ).
- but their upkeep is high to symbolize the fact, that when they´re called to arms, many men are missed on the fields etc.

I could understand it if they did have slightly better stats but its exactly the same. Only difference is one has +1 armor but -1 defense skill but total defense = with both. After 3 turns the 50% maintenance costs make it obvious which to choose. I edited the unit so the younger need to be trained guys have slightly higher initial cost(new equipment as well as training) while the older veterans have +1 defense skill and +1 armor so total defense +2 over the new recruits. Still probably wouldn't choose them due the long term maintenance costs but at least makes a bit more sense if a surprise invasion starts and you need units quick.

[Vae victis]

I agree that the veteran units should have better stats. I never use them in the campaign because the cheaper pezoi are just as good for half the cost. This is true for a lot of the factions that I play. I am stuck using crappy units because the upkeep costs for the good units are to high to be cost effective. I like the higher end units, I just wish that I could use them more often.

I have played both Armenia and Pontus and the main unit differance is that Pontus has affordable phalanxes with regular calvary, while Armenia uses poor infantry, but has superior kataphract calvary. I would not play either faction on vh campaign difficulty because the SE gets really agressive against the player.

[despot_of_rhodes]

You should try "horsarcher only" armies - to interrupt support lines and even to fight mighty phalanx armies... you want a "cavalry general of genius" in no time? this is the way to do it
In my campaign with Pontus, and also Armenia, my neighbours went crazy: they were all allied and i was fighting a war on all the fronts available fo each of those factions. But after i figured out how to win with pontic horse archer + general ( cataphract ) cavalry armies, i started those raids as Armenian and had crushed seleucid presence in the region, leaving them some boarder provinces ( played on H/H - there is no sence in playing on VH battle difficulty, the whole unit stats are then simply beyond any realism, imho ).

[Caligula Caesar]

But there's no fun in spamming cheap horse archers, which the AI can't handle. Well, for me at least, and only after a while. It gets repetitive.

[Vae victis]

Lol, its probably better than my General only armies with Armenia. I do prefer a good phalanx battle though.

[Ichon]

Lol, its probably better than my General only armies with Armenia. I do prefer a good phalanx battle though.

I did notice the Armenian Generals seem very strong... I am playing on VH-H with Armenia right now and frequently I have ended up winning the battle with 1 unit archers, 1 unit spearmen, and 2 Family members... more heroic victories in this campaign than any other I've played because of that. The Sels took Van from me early but it rebeled and gave me a rebel border region so then Sels agreed to ceasefire while I am advancing around the Black Sea. They just attacked again though so that only lasted 8 turns or so. The units are pretty expensive, I'd almost be fine except lost 3 unit in Van and for some reason my +3 exp units keep merging which is really annoying before I get a chance to retrain them. I don't remember that happening before, is there some setting to not auto merge?

[Vae victis]

Armenia and Parthia are fun to play because they have tough, kataphract generals, the best in the game. These units are like tanks and it is fun to fight battles with them. I never heard of them merging before, unless you are using the katapracht unit instead of the generals bodygaurd. They have about the same stats, but the generals automatically replace losses every turn instead of merging.

Good luck with your Armenia campaign on vh!!! I have played a couple on vh campaign difficulty and it can get tough defending against the SE. On vh campaign difficulty, the AI gets an unlimited income every turn so it will be relentless in its attacks against you. Expect to fight many stacks of well armed troops and mercenaries. Let us know how the campaign goes