can't remove secondary weapon on pikemen

[KennyBot]

Hi I'm having trouble removing secondary weapon on noble pikemen, I tried to remove thier stat_sec line, edit to stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0, 1, but it seens no matter what I do they will whip out thier sword, even I tried to disable thier guard mode, enable spear formation during the battle. can anyone tell me if I'm missing some procedures or edit unit's text file simply won't cut it....

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

i think it has somthing to do with their animations or models.

[Awellesley]

try this line instead:

stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1

[B. Ward]

You have to edit the model and change the animation entry in the modelsdb file.

[axnsan]

You have to edit the model and change the animation entry in the modelsdb file.

having removed the secondary wep from pikemen i can tell you he deosn't. if the unit doesn't have a secondary line the game has no reason to use the secondary weap on the model or the animation for secondary weapon.

try the line Aweselly posted and it will work


why do people always have to make it so complicated ...?

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

thats anther error that will show up in your system.log it might not be a CTD causing one but an error none the less.

[B. Ward]

having removed the secondary wep from pikemen i can tell you he deosn't. if the unit doesn't have a secondary line the game has no reason to use the secondary weap on the model or the animation for secondary weapon.

try the line Aweselly posted and it will work


why do people always have to make it so complicated ...?

I stand corrected. Tried it out and they keep the pikes out with Aweselly's suggestion.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

i don't think it's really nessisary to remove them there are other ways around removing them to balance pikemen better.

[Caesar Clivus]

i don't think it's really nessisary to remove them there are other ways around removing them to balance pikemen better.

Such as?

[Eothese]

Best way is to use 2 anims in the battle_models.db

4 None
9 MTW2_Pike
20 MTW2_Halberd_Primary
1
17 MTW2_Pike_primary
1
17 MTW2_Pike_primary
16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002

Pikemen then become evil, ruthless, killers.

[Triumvere]

Tightening the spacing helps a bit. So does improving their stats a little.

Also, knowing *how* to use them is key (when to use guard mode, how to get them to reform if they stop using their pikes, and what to do when they turn around backwards).

[Caesar Clivus]

Tightening the spacing helps a bit. So does improving their stats a little.

Also, knowing *how* to use them is key (when to use guard mode, how to get them to reform if they stop using their pikes, and what to do when they turn around backwards).

But the AI can never know how to do that level of micromanagement so it is best to just remove the secondary weapon.

[Triumvere]

No, the AI is pretty much screwed, but seriously, in order to use pikes properly you need to do all sorts of other things (try to stay on the defensive, have a real phalanx of multiple pike units in line, maintaining that line while protecting the flanks so it can't be out flanked, etc...) that the AI can't even begin to handle. Seriously, the AI can't even figure out that it needs to march its halberdiers with the phalanx off so that they won't fall way behind the rest of the army.

I'd have to disagree that its "best" to remove the secondary weapon, as this tends to turn pikemen into solid murder, even when you reduce their stats to almost nothing. Solid murder that can't be effectively flanked, mind you. I don't see how that is any more realistic than having dropping their pikes constantly. Raise the stats and tighten the spacing and both you and the AI will get considerably more "pikage", and significantly more effectiveness out of pike units without making them overpowered. Not a perfect solution by any means, but considerably better in my opinion.

I tested it both ways, and went with the spacing solution. I also did a lot of fooling around with halberdier animations and stats, and ended up coming to the same conclusion. I guess you just need to go with what works best for you, though I would recommend giving it a try, if you haven't all ready.

[Caesar Clivus]

I agree that just removing the secondary weapon can make them a wee bit overpowered even if you drop their stats. But you can counter that somewhat by making them vulnerable to other types of attack. In SS pikemen are vulnerable to ranged attacks, for instance.

[Triumvere]

Aren't all pikemen vulnerable to missiles, by virtue of being in densely pacted, slow moving formations without the protection of shields (or armour at recruitment level)?

[redxavier]

I've read some posts suggesting that editing the strike distances for pike help.

[Taiji]

Dual weapons on inf is just bad. They suck so bad it makes me cry (well actually 'shout', grr). Typically it takes 1 or 2 to engage close up and bang, they all get their swords out. Then their focus changes to a unit further away and out come the pikes again. Of course they're just getting smacked about while this weapon changing dance is going on.

Ballance mass to get your cav sorted, nice penetration, etc. then try not shouting at the idiotic AI spearmen as they change to sword secondary during their defence against a cav charge.

I would vote for never using infantry with dual melee weapons on account of the engine being unable to handle them. The alternative is fine it just lacks a little authenticity, breaking a unit to add authenticity that the game cannot handle is a bad idea.

Pikemen in SS and DLV (and probably many other mods) use the 'spear' attribute and a low attack speed so they are quite weak versus infantry when flanked. Also their speed makes them weak vs missile since the AI will not take them out of phalanx. In DLV they get spaced (I think in SS too) to allow better frontal penetration. Also in DLV they get to face units that can't normally be knocked back (like Forlorne Hope).

As a side note about phalanx it's worth setting all phalanx units to default_melee_state 'defend' in formations_ai to enable guard mode for the AI since crappy old m2tw (which I love ) will turn them to face the wrong direction in combat if they are not in gaurd mode.

Also about halberdeers - you can fix their walk speed in phalanx mode in descr_skel by switching the animations around for walking in phalanx so they'll go faster.

[Triumvere]

The problem with leaving defensive on, at least for the human player, is that it results in very poor performance. Initially the pikemen will take fewer casualties, as they won't mess up formtion, but their kill rate will fall dramatically. Because they are slowly dying, while the enemy is taking very few losses there is a sort of snowball effect... you'll hit a tipping point where too many pikemen have died to properly maintain the formation and then the rest will get slaughtered. Defensive is only really good when: A) absorbing the shock of a cavalry charge, and B) when you absolutely positively don't want your line to budge (hammer and anvil tactics, for example).

[Taiji]

I see what you mean, but with the AI 'guard mode' either stays on or stays off and if it's off then the AI pikes will wind up facing the wrong way at some point.

They still go on the attack, perhaps it's not as potent when they do though.

I think it might be on for ai by default in RTW... not sure about that...

[Triumvere]

I can't speak for the AI... maybe it works well for it because it can constantly give appropriate orders. Just speaking from a player's perspective.