Free Will

[Tuor]

Is free will really what it appears to be?

From a religious point of view, God(s) granted us with free will. If God bestowed it, then doesn't that contradict the intension? God chose for us. We didn't choose free will because we weren't around to be asked. Even if we were around when the idea of free will was thought up we wouldn't have had a say in it because we wouldn't have had free will yet....

I know this is a confusing, contradicting concept, but I feel it's definitely something interesting to ponder.

[Hippolord]

Free will is not a choice...

There can be no free will...

If you are to be perfect...

Lest you make your own perfection.

Thusly you are perfect unto yourself.

Everyone else is just a luxury.

[Tuor]

Free will is not a choice...

There can be no free will...

If you are to be perfect...

Lest you make your own perfection.

Thusly you are perfect unto yourself.

Everyone else is just a luxury.

Intriguing....

[Helm]

You can only have 100% true free will if omnipotent beings are removed from the picture altogether. Not difficult to comprehend if you're an atheist.

[Hippolord]

You can only have 100% true free will if omnipotent beings are removed from the picture altogether. Not difficult to comprehend if you're an atheist.

Actually you can only be 100% free if you remove all aboselutes from the picture...

Such as mathematics.

Thus you can only be free if you are omni-potent.

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

You can have free will if you never submit to another's will.

[Arch-hereticK]

You can have free will if you never submit to another's will.

What if it's your free will to submit to another's will?

[Tuor]

What if it's your free will to submit to another's will?

Rofl good point.

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

What if it's your free will to submit to another's will?

You give up your decision in favor of submitting to their own. Sure you chose it, but it is simply a reflection of another person's will upon you.

[Tuor]

You give up your decision in favor of submitting to their own. Sure you chose it, but it is simply a reflection of another person's will upon you.

It's a reflection, but he has a pont. You are still choosing for yourself, whether you have been influenced or not.

[Lord Romanus III]

It's a reflection, but he has a pont. You are still choosing for yourself, whether you have been influenced or not.

That's my thoughts on it. It is yours no matter what, even if it influenced by someone else.

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

It's a reflection, but he has a pont. You are still choosing for yourself, whether you have been influenced or not.

If you choose to let them choose for you, you become little more than an observer in your own body. Sure people can influence your decisions, but if you do not make the final decision you are not exercising your free will.

[magickyleo101]

Is free will really what it appears to be?

From a religious point of view, God(s) granted us with free will. If God bestowed it, then doesn't that contradict the intension? God chose for us. We didn't choose free will because we weren't around to be asked. Even if we were around when the idea of free will was thought up we wouldn't have had a say in it because we wouldn't have had free will yet....

I know this is a confusing, contradicting concept, but I feel it's definitely something interesting to ponder.

The idea behind free will isn't that you're supposed to choose everything. For example, that I have free will doesn't mean that I can make myself grow a foot overnight. Thus, there's no real contradiction in the fact that a person might have free will but didn't choose to have it. Whether to have free will or not is just another one of the decisions that having free will doesn't let you make.

[Tuor]

The idea behind free will isn't that you're supposed to choose everything. For example, that I have free will doesn't mean that I can make myself grow a foot overnight. Thus, there's no real contradiction in the fact that a person might have free will but didn't choose to have it. Whether to have free will or not is just another one of the decisions that having free will doesn't let you make.

I agree. Free will isn't the idea that you are supposed to choose everything. It's the idea that you think and feel the way that you choose. Just because you want something strongly doesn't mean you're going to get it, but you could still WANT it. You are still able to choose everything in your own mind. Just because free will doesn't always apply physically doesn't mean it's not a contradictory concept....

[Playfishpaste]

You can never have free-will as it is classically defined. Not even a little of it. Because you don't really choose who you are in the first place, and thus you don't choose your choices.

[Denny Crane!]

One thing that is clear. We are not our concious selves, but yet we are free.

Anyone read Daniel Dennet on this?

[Tuor]

One thing that is clear. We are not our concious selves, but yet we are free.

Anyone read Daniel Dennet on this?

No, but that too sounds interesting. I suppose our freedom allows us to be whatever we want to project ourselves to be.

[magickyleo101]

@Ricky's Mom

I agree. Free will isn't the idea that you are supposed to choose everything. It's the idea that you think and feel the way that you choose. Just because you want something strongly doesn't mean you're going to get it, but you could still WANT it. You are still able to choose everything in your own mind. Just because free will doesn't always apply physically doesn't mean it's not a contradictory concept....

I don't even think this is true. I can't just will myself to know the answer to a math question.

One thing that is clear. We are not our concious selves, but yet we are free.

Anyone read Daniel Dennet on this?

Are you talking about Freedom Evolves? I read it for one of my philosophy courses when I was still a philosophy major but I wasn't terribly impressed by it.

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. We're not ourselves?

[Tuor]

Are you talking about Freedom Evolves? I read it for one of my philosophy courses when I was still a philosophy major but I wasn't terribly impressed by it.

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. We're not ourselves?

I think he means... we don't act the way that we think.

[Denny Crane!]

Are you talking about Freedom Evolves? I read it for one of my philosophy courses when I was still a philosophy major but I wasn't terribly impressed by it.

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. We're not ourselves?

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Most of our impulses and actions come from our subconcious preconditioned impulses and what we are beneath our self chatter. This is why willpower is a fiction, if you want to kick a habit the change has to come at a deeper level. It is why we decide whether we like someone in a matter of seconds regardless of what information we find out later.