[Sub-Mod] Improved Campaign AI v4 relased- Enhancement Mod for APE:TI + Discussion

[Tariq]

I got some arbitrary results after fiddling with these values. Required force to assistance/war was at 100/150 but the AI is still dow'ing like hell. On the other hand I raised the basic spending bias diplomatic to 0.2 and actually saw Poland and Russia ally with Denmark. But no new trade agreements. I think 1.3 messed that up, because I recall much more trade going on in 1.2.

I just did 150+ turns as UP and haven't seen any new alliances or trade agreements. However there was almost no action(or was very slow) for good 70-80 turns with Aggression/War on 130/200.

AI would declare war, but not managed to gain any ground (or do any action?) in that time.Different part was no AI faction declared any war directly on me for those 150 turns(nor France or Spain). I got only involved in Austria/Spain war for 1 turn, and sign peace same turn.Other then that , no wars against me , and there was slightly little less on AI side.

Example, France and Savoy never declared their obligatory war on each other, and same with Austria and Ottomans.

[The_Enigma]

I just tried this and I felt no difference. I was playing as the Iroqious Indians and this is basically what happened:

-I declared war on France.
-Louisiana declares war on me(Expected)
-France declares war on the 13 Colonies (After losing a city in lower Canada... Makes no sense, why would they open up a second front in North America)
-World War opens up in Europe and Asia Minor.
-Cherokees declare war on Me
-Huron declare war on me (A few turns after setting up a trade agreement and me giving them a set of fine china)

The one thing I did notice though is that it is very easy to set up trade agreements. Maybe it was because I was playing as the Indians and that I declared war on France that screwed it up. But besides that it felt normal.

EDIT:
I think I installed this wrong. I just played a campaign as Prussia. 5 turns in I declared war on Poland and that brought Saxony in a war against me. Few turns later, Austira (who was also at war with Poland) declared war on me. Britain and Hannover also jumped in and declared war on me.

I put the file in my data folder and the txt file in the correct folder. wtf?

[Seraph07]

+ Rep dude, What the hell are you guys tweaking, the unknwon colum? What ever it is it's working.

After years of war w/ spain and France , frances economey was bleeding and my Army in portugal had thrown the Spanish out. After a sould shattering defeat at an African trade node I offered peace for, just for the hell of it, demanding a tech. Surprisingly they agreed, and I later came to peace w/ France several turns later. I actually had a trade agreement with them for a little while too.

90 turns into a game wars are being waged as sensibley as possible , with the A.I sending large balance stacks. Awesome work man


( Are there hidden checks and balances to realistic expansion? For example Marathas are the worlds super power put dont really seem to move past Persia. Also, I've seen Austia come back from the brink of destruction twice now )

[alpaca]

I assume the trade issue is true, that is a major bug. *SIGH* I guess we have to put some hope to 1.4. I still would like to play this game now not in 1 month.

Is there anyway we can create script that will create trade agreements to tie us over until 1.4?

I am back in town and plan to do some more testing on some of the variables above.

I didn't have the impression that the force diplomacy code worked from my tests some time in the past. It would merely allow us to stop them from signing an agreement but not to broker one.

[erasmus777]

I noticed there's an AI entry that prioritizes what ships focus on: defending the coast, defending ports, patrolling neighbor's coast. They're numbered 3,2,1 respectively and I assume 3 is the highest priority. Anyone tried changing these so the AI will prioritize defending their ports?

Has anyone tried this? Not that it matters too much atm if the AI isn't signing trade agreements.

[Matte979]

I finally had some time to do some more testing and did a few more tweaks. New file in first thread and in this post.

Attachment 46762

Summary: The reason AI did not spend any money on building was due to a bug, I accidently put speding at 0. (So I guess we know that parameter works) I also tweaked some other values, I now get very noticable less aggression from minors and they have one mobile almost full stack for defence and full garrison. Btw this file also include a tweak to campaign variables and to navy admin buildings. I personally like when I am not attacked unless they can hurt me. But if you want them to continue total war lower the threashold for war / peace. I currently have it at 250% strength which is pretty high, I do think other countries at war with the target is included as I still see a lot of major powers fighting.

Next thing I would like to analys:

What happens if you increase the money for diplomacy to see if it affect peace deals etc)?

New changes in v2

BASE_CONSTRUCTION_BIAS_ECONOMIC
0.2 – 0.3

BASE_CONSTRUCTION_BIAS_MILITARY

0.5 – 0.4

SUPPORT_OBTAINING_LOCAL_MOBILES_ARMY_BIAS_FOR_REMOVING_GARRISONS

0.9– 0.7

WAR_AND_PEACE_MANAGER_PROPORTION_OF_REQUIRED_FORCES_TO_START_ASSISTANCE

130 - 200

WAR_AND_PEACE_MANAGER_PROPORTION_OF_REQUIRED_FORCES_TO_START_WAR 80 – 250


130 -200

WAR_AND_PEACE_MANAGER_PROPORTION_OF_REQUIRED_FORCES_TO_START_WAR 80 – 250

150 - 250

BASIC_SPENDING_BIAS_CONSTRUCTION

0 – 0.15 (Bug)

BASIC_SPENDING_BIAS_CONSTRUCTION_SAVE_MONEY_ON_FAIL

0.2 – 10 (Bug)

BASIC_SPENDING_BIAS_RECRUITMENT_NAVY

0.4 to 0.3

BASIC_SPENDING_BIAS_RECRUITMENT_ARMY

0.4 to 0.45

[Jet Jaguar]

Is v2 saved game capatable with v1?

Even if it is, do you suggest starting a new campaign with v2?

Thanks again for giving us this mod; if not for it, I'd probably be abstaining from E:TW until 1.4.

[Matte979]

Is v2 saved game capatable with v1?

Even if it is, do you suggest starting a new campaign with v2?

Thanks again for giving us this mod; if not for it, I'd probably be abstaining from E:TW until 1.4.

The AI changes are save game compatible, but as you know the AI changes affect the AI from the begining of the game its your call.

[Jet Jaguar]

The AI changes are save game compatible, but as you know the AI changes affect the AI from the begining of the game its your call.

Thanks. I think I'll start a new campaign; that'd be better for testing and reporting changes in AI behavior.

also: since you discovered and fixed an AI building bug, starting a new would probably be best.

[Matte979]

I just did 150+ turns as UP and haven't seen any new alliances or trade agreements. However there was almost no action(or was very slow) for good 70-80 turns with Aggression/War on 130/200.

AI would declare war, but not managed to gain any ground (or do any action?) in that time.Different part was no AI faction declared any war directly on me for those 150 turns(nor France or Spain). I got only involved in Austria/Spain war for 1 turn, and sign peace same turn.Other then that , no wars against me , and there was slightly little less on AI side.

Example, France and Savoy never declared their obligatory war on each other, and same with Austria and Ottomans.

Intresting the latest version increased it to 200 / 250. When using this number I did not see any sucide wars on me, but I still got wars between big powers / alliances and war on countries allready at war. Alliances / peace and trade is in my opinion broken in vanilla.

One of the goals for the changes I do is to reduce declaration of wars from nations that does not have any business declaring war, vanilla AI is just not realistic when it comes to war. AI declares wars even with little or not chance of actually winning. I rather have them not declare war and force the player to declare war. That is if the player wants more terrirory. In vanilla you could just wait to some dumb AI declared war on you and then conquer them, I think CA likes it that way as that is the perception of a more fun game. I think they took it to far. Balance is the key, but senseless declaration of war is just a way to hide the current sad AI diplomacy.

Another goal of the changes is to increase troop levels for AI so when you declare war you get a tough fight on your hands and in turn also enable more declarations of war on you, and when the AI declare war it should be scary.

[Jet Jaguar]

Please forgive my ignorance, but should I delete the datapack file of version 1 from my data folder before dropping the datapack file of version 2 in my data folder? Thanks in advance

[Matte979]

Please forgive my ignorance, but should I delete the datapack file of version 1 from my data folder before dropping the datapack file of version 2 in my data folder? Thanks in advance

Yes, but its not necessary the changed file should replace the one you have.

[Jet Jaguar]

Intresting the latest version increased it to 200 / 250. When using this number I did not see any sucide wars on me, but I still got wars between big powers / alliances and war on countries allready at war. Alliances / peace and trade is in my opinion broken in vanilla.

One of the goals for the changes I do is to reduce declaration of wars from nations that does not have any business declaring war, vanilla AI is just not realistic when it comes to war. AI declares wars even with little or not chance of actually winning. I rather have them not declare war and force the player to declare war. That is if the player wants more terrirory. In vanilla you could just wait to some dumb AI declared war on you and then conquer them, I think CA likes it that way as that is the perception of a more fun game. I think they took it to far. Balance is the key, but senseless declaration of war is just a way to hide the current sad AI diplomacy.

Another goal of the changes is to increase troop levels for AI so when you declare war you get a tough fight on your hands and in turn also enable more declarations of war on you, and when the AI declare war it should be scary.

I've noticed that forcing the player to declare war creates more challenging wars because the AI's allies join in because it's a defensive war. For instance, I've been playing as Prussia and I use to wait for Poland to declare war on me; and I'd fight them by themselves (while they were also at war with Austria and a few others). With the new AI changes, Poland doesn't automatically declare war -so I have to declare war on her if I want to take West Prussia and connect my 2 provinces; but when I declare war on Poland -Russia, Saxony and Courland all declare war on me to honor their defensive alliances with Poland. I don't know yet if Russia will actually move her troops across Poland and attack me; but Saxony and Courland are keeping my armies parked defensively in Brandenburg and East Prussia.

This alone makes a huge difference. Waiting for one nation to declare war on you by itself always led to an easy war; especially when that one AI nation was also at war with every other nation it bordered.

Another result of this mod is that it reduces the likelyhood and frequency of unrealistic, 3-way wars: Poland's at war with Austria and Prussia, Austria's at war with Prussia and Poland, and Prussia's at war with Austria and Poland.

[Matte979]

I've noticed that forcing the player to declare war creates more challenging wars because the AI's allies join in because it's a defensive war. For instance, I've been playing as Prussia and I use to wait for Poland to declare war on me; and I'd fight them by themselves (while they were also at war with Austria and a few others). With the new AI changes, Poland doesn't automatically declare war -so I have to declare war on her if I want to take West Prussia and connect my 2 provinces; but when I declare war on Poland -Russia, Saxony and Courland all declare war on me to honor their defensive alliances with Poland. I don't know yet if Russia will actually move her troops across Poland and attack me; but Saxony and Courland are keeping my armies parked defensively in Brandenburg and East Prussia.

This alone makes a huge difference. Waiting for one nation to declare war on you by itself always led to an easy war; especially when that one AI nation was also at war with every other nation it bordered.

Another result of this mod is that it reduces the likelyhood and frequency of unrealistic, 3-way wars: Poland's at war with Austria and Prussia, Austria's at war with Prussia and Poland, and Prussia's at war with Austria and Poland.

Keep your experience information coming. I am currently testing v2 and the 250 - 200 percent threshold for war / assitance. Personally I like it beacuse you dont get senseless wars. The issue that could bother some is that you dont get the total war as the game is slower. If the AI could create alliances and build up troops correctly I think the setting would be ok. The senseless crazy 3 way wars should then be gone.

My concern is that the AI dont attack if your weak and they are strong, so that what I am going to study now.

[Matte979]

Ok after some testing I have found a couple of parameters that are very interesting.

MINIMUM_ABSOLUTE_STRENGTH_MULTIPLE_ARMIES

Default 80

MINIMUM_ABSOLUTE_STRENGTH_MULTIPLE_NAVIES

Default 80

MINIMUM_BATTLE_RESULT

Default 10

MINIMUM_CHANCE_OF_SUCCESS

Default 30

MINIMUM_RELATIVE_STRENGTH

7


After changing these you can really control how you want the AI to behave in war, I changed the first one to 160 and the AI is more of turtle due to lack of willpower to commit troops if the AI cant win. This create a more realistic AI but at the expense of fun as the map is more static. You get large stacks and large garrisons in the cities. Next I plan to adjust this to like 110% strenght which is a little better for offensive and then changing the priority of troops to garrsion from 50% to 40% and grouping to 27% from 17%, the hope is to create more and a little larger mobile armies.

Another change that made a big diffrence is to enable line infantry in all lv2 admin buildings and up. Now the AI build troops in all provinces, and its harder to just pick off the non military provinces. I am helping a friend build a movie screen today so wont test this more until later tonight. But I thought I include the Beta file of v3 with these changes. Let me know if you test it and give feedback.

I

[Tariq]

Intresting the latest version increased it to 200 / 250. When using this number I did not see any sucide wars on me, but I still got wars between big powers / alliances and war on countries allready at war. Alliances / peace and trade is in my opinion broken in vanilla.

One of the goals for the changes I do is to reduce declaration of wars from nations that does not have any business declaring war, vanilla AI is just not realistic when it comes to war. AI declares wars even with little or not chance of actually winning. I rather have them not declare war and force the player to declare war. That is if the player wants more terrirory. In vanilla you could just wait to some dumb AI declared war on you and then conquer them, I think CA likes it that way as that is the perception of a more fun game. I think they took it to far. Balance is the key, but senseless declaration of war is just a way to hide the current sad AI diplomacy.

Another goal of the changes is to increase troop levels for AI so when you declare war you get a tough fight on your hands and in turn also enable more declarations of war on you, and when the AI declare war it should be scary.

I haven't say they don't declare wars, they just did it on slightly slower pace ,probably due to longer build up.And when they did go to war , first 70-80 turns there was no exchange of territories. I don't find that bad at all either.


One thing i noticed is that some values have to come to full number , example all BASE_CONSTRUCTION _ values calculated together have maximum of 1 (example 0.2+0.05+0.2+0.5+0.05 = 1.0) .It looks to me that if you go over that total value, there will be no change in behavior.

[alpaca]

I haven't say they don't declare wars, they just did it on slightly slower pace ,probably due to longer build up.And when they did go to war , first 70-80 turns there was no exchange of territories. I don't find that bad at all either.


One thing i noticed is that some values have to come to full number , example all BASE_CONSTRUCTION _ values calculated together have maximum of 1 (example 0.2+0.05+0.2+0.5+0.05 = 1.0) .It looks to me that if you go over that total value, there will be no change in behavior.

That's because they represent spending percentages. If you go over 1 it doesn't make sense and it's unclear what the game would do, I'd bet my money that it just drops them and uses some default value.

[Matte979]

Did more testing last night.

You can really change AI behaviour by changing the minimum absolute strength.

So to summarize three things that really improve the AI.

1. Raising total strength needed for war and assitance (Big wars will still happen but the small countries will only get involved if they have the strength to fight. Will delay wars some and the AI will be much better prepared for war.
2. Changing spending ratios to spend more on Army (AI still is very competitive on building)
3. Priority on diffrent bahaviours for troops (Defence, Grouping, Borders etc)
4. Weight of troops (Tested this yesterday , the AI seem to weight troops outside cities in same region at 80% to determine size of defence in cities I reduced it to 60% and got a better mix on offensive and defensive. Also the AI valued Armed Citizens at 80% strength reducing this to 60% also helps.
5. Engage in battle ratios (Minmium strength is no 90% increase to 120% creates a significant better choices when to attack by the AI. (The AI groups their troops more to create stronger stacks)
6. Adding Line infantry and light infantry to all goverment buildings lv 2 and up. (AI will garrison all their border regions even if they are not military encampments)
7. Adding ship of the line 5 and 6 to lv 2 and up on trade ports. (AI builds more ships)

I plan to create a v3 in an hour or so, in my opinion the war part of the game is significantly better. The diplomacy AI could need an overhaul but thats CAs job.

But first I got a bug I need to crush, found it yesterday it seem to be core APE:TI something with available units to recruit. I need to get the latest version test it so it works and then add my changes.

[Tariq]

That's because they represent spending percentages. If you go over 1 it doesn't make sense and it's unclear what the game would do, I'd bet my money that it just drops them and uses some default value.

That's what i meant, i think that if you go over 1 it will adjust value(s) that gives total of 1, considering that default one can still get them over that number in end calculations.

Or it will just default it all values involved to achieve that.

[alpaca]

That's what i meant, i think that if you go over 1 it will adjust value(s) that gives total of 1, considering that default one can still get them over that number in end calculations.

Or it will just default it all values involved to achieve that.

But how should the game decide which value to drop? Either the last value would be lowered or all would be reset to defaults.

@Matte: sounds interesting, I'll give this a go when we start playtesting for 1.1