Kuril island dispute

[James the Red]

Russia and Japan, both countries claim the islands, what do you think should be done with and why?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G8-oMYHo7k
http://www.kurilnature.org/

[MathiasOfAthens]

Give it to the United States.

[Markas]

Russia should give them to Japan, just to stop the god-awful songs.

[Mikelus Trento]

Give them to N. Korea to use as a target?

[MathiasOfAthens]

So Stalin kicked out all the Japs, when did the Japs go to the Island though, are they native too or did they overwealm the native population?

ALso there are no Japs still living there. Currently there are less than 20,000 Russian citizens living there. Will they be kicked out too, lose their russian citizenship with a change of ownership?

[Markas]

So Stalin kicked out all the Japs, when did the Japs go to the Island though, are they native too or did they overwealm the native population?

ALso there are no Japs still living there. Currently there are less than 20,000 Russian citizens living there. Will they be kicked out too, lose their russian citizenship with a change of ownership?

According to Mistress Wiki-

History

The Ainu people are the original inhabitants of Kuril Islands. However, through Japanese invasion of the Ainu homeland, and subsequent ethnic-cleansing, the ethnic population was decimated by the invaders.

The Kuril Islands first came under nominal Japanese administration in the Edo period of Japan, in the form of claims by the Matsumae clan. It is claimed that the Japanese knew of the northern islands 370 years ago.[1] Trade between these islands and Ezo (Hokkaidō) existed long before then. On "Shōhō Onkuko Ezu", a map of Japan made by the Tokugawa shogunate, in 1644, there are 39 large and small islands shown northeast of the Shiretoko peninsula and Cape Nosappu.

Russia began to advance into the Kurils in the early 18th century. Although the Russians often sent expedition parties for research and hunted sea otters, they never went south of Urup island.

Russians had a settlement on Iturup in the 18th century because the Tokugawa shogunate controlled islands south of Iturup and had guards stationed on those islands to prevent incursions by foreigners.

In 1811, Russian Captain Vasily Golovnin and his crew, who stopped at Kunashir during their hydrographic survey, were captured by retainers of the Nambu clan, and sent to the Matsumae authorities. Because a Japanese trader, Takadaya Kahei, was also captured by a Russian vessel near Kunashir, Japan and Russia entered into negotiations to establish the border between the two countries.

The Treaty of Commerce, Navigation and Delimitation was concluded in 1855, and the border was established between Iturup and Urup. This border confirmed that Japanese territory stretched south from Iturup and Russian territory stretched north of Urup. Sakhalin remained a place where people from both countries could live. The Treaty of Saint Petersburg in 1875 resulted in Japan relinquishing all rights over Sakhalin in exchange for Russia ceding all of the Kuril Islands north of Urup to Japan.

During the Russo-Japanese War of 1904–1905, Gunji, a retired Japanese military man and local settler in Shumshu, led an invading party to the Kamchatka coast. Russia sent reinforcements to the area to capture and intern this group. After the war was over, Japan received fishing rights in Russian waters as part of the Russo-Japanese fisheries agreement until 1945.

During their armed intervention in Siberia 1918–1925, Japanese forces from the northern Kurils, along with United States and European forces, occupied southern Kamchatka. Japanese vessels made naval strikes against Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky.

The Soviet Union reclaimed southern Sakhalin and the Kuril islands by force at the end of World War II (see Treaty of San Francisco), but Japan maintains a claim to the four southernmost islands of Kunashir, Iturup, Shikotan, and the Habomai rocks, together called the Northern Territories (see Kuril Islands dispute).

[Atterdag]

Moved to the Academy, as it's not about current news.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Now, I'm waiting for all those Russian TWC memebers that cry about Israel occupying Palestine to come up with interesting answers.
And as long as we're at it, let's open a thread about ending the occupation of Kenigsberg

As for my stance on the OP, I'll wait with posting my opinion.

[Giuliano Taverna]

Now, I'm waiting for all those Russian TWC memebers that cry about Israel occupying Palestine to come up with interesting answers.
And as long as we're at it, let's open a thread about ending the occupation of Kenigsberg

As for my stance on the OP, I'll wait with posting my opinion.

Didn't you know that Russia was totally justified in brutally invading and conquering south osertia? I mean we have all been brainwashed by the evil Jews in our media to think Israel is a good ally.

seriously though, what shocks me is that many Americans actually believe this stuff because they believe in CIA, Federal reserve, ect conspiracy theories.

Case in point, its common knowlege among Obama and Ron Paul supporters that Israel is an arpathed state, even though that is a total myth.

[Giuliano Taverna]

I say, let the people on the Islands pick who they want to govern them. Its the most pragmatic approach.

[Markas]

I say, let the people on the Islands pick who they want to govern them. Its the most pragmatic approach.

Pretty much the only option. The documentary at 16.30 talks about how there is (or rather was) a movement to join with Japan. The answer of the Russian Mayor is pretty funny. Then there's the scary Russian Nationalist who seems to have escaped from the 1950's (or twc, depending on your view).

[Giuliano Taverna]

Pretty much the only option. The documentary at 16.30 talks about how there is (or rather was) a movement to join with Japan. The answer of the Russian Mayor is pretty funny. Then there's the scary Russian Nationalist who seems to have escaped from the 1950's (or twc, depending on your view).

Nationalism+ antiAmericanism + antisemitism is the new communism... Have to have something to keep ones people from embracing their former enemies now that the cold war is almost 20 years in the past.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Losers of wars often lose territory - tough beaners.

[sephodwyrm]

No Japanese were being held behind the walls, so far as I know about Kuril.

[YuriVII]

History happens, Japan should really learn to get over it.

This video is . Typical British documentary portraying life as gray . Because we're Russians right? We dont know how to live? And Japan, the same country that cant even admit its involvement in Nanking wants 4 islands that are exclusively inhabited by Russians. But no one cares that they will be displaced.

Journeyman pictures is , and this isnt the only documentary I have seen of theirs. They are nothing more than propagandists.

[Markas]

History happens, Japan should really learn to get over it.

This video is . Typical British documentary portraying life as gray . Because we're Russians right? We dont know how to live? And Japan, the same country that cant even admit its involvement in Nanking wants 4 islands that are exclusively inhabited by Russians. But no one cares that they will be displaced.

Journeyman pictures is , and this isnt the only documentary I have seen of theirs. They are nothing more than propagandists.

'Typical British documentary' Why is it you Americans (and you are an American as far as I'm concerned) can't tell the difference between Britain and Australia? The documentary is Australian. I also find it odd how you dismiss it as anti-Russian propaganda when the documentary clearly shows the Japanese using propaganda on their children.

Is any documentary about Russia not immediately siezed upon as anti-russian by twc 'Russians'? (most are just Americans who think they are). Did you even watch it?

[YuriVII]

'Typical British documentary' Why is it you Americans (and you are an American as far as I'm concerned) can't tell the difference between Britain and Australia? The documentary is Australian. I also find it odd how you dismiss it as anti-Russian propaganda when the documentary clearly shows the Japanese using propaganda on their children.

Is any documentary about Russia not immediately siezed upon as anti-russian by twc 'Russians'? (most are just Americans who think they are). Did you even watch it?

Did you even read my post? I have watched quite a few of videos from journeyman pictures so I know quite a bit about where the publisher is coming from.

Two, yes I did watch it, and they did harp on that usual little narrative, "russia took away someonez landz, boo russia" mentality I hear about a lot. Not like Australia or GB (dont really give a rat's ass) had any problem when we did take them. Journeyman pictures even went political in their Kamchatka documentary, a place that really has nothing to do about politics, just the natural world. Its not my fault that so many western documentaries present my country as a bleak place to live. Its like every damn documentary its about sad stories, but no success stories. Just tragedy, because thats all what happens in my country. Well dont take it from me, its not like I've never lived there for the majority of my life.

Three, I am Russian, I have one passport and that passport has Citizen of Rossiskoi Federatsii written all over it. So unless you're trying to play the "he doesn't live in Russia now therefore his opinion doesn't matter card" its not gonna work. If I'm an American, how the can I not vote in their elections?

Also, sorry. I have a hard time telling between Australian and British accents. To me they more or less sound the same and Australians really are a lot like British in the end. I am sure to people in the commonwealth they sound different as night and day though.

[Markas]

Did you even read my post? I have watched quite a few of videos from journeyman pictures so I know quite a bit about where the publisher is coming from.

They're the distributor. ABC Australia produced the Documentary.

Two, yes I did watch it, and they did harp on that usual little narrative, "russia took away someonez landz, boo russia" mentality I hear about a lot. Not like Australia or GB (dont really give a rat's ass) had any problem when we did take them. Journeyman pictures even went political in their Kamchatka documentary, a place that really has nothing to do about politics, just the natural world. Its not my fault that so many western documentaries present my country as a bleak place to live. Its like every damn documentary its about sad stories, but no success stories. Just tragedy, because thats all what happens in my country. Well dont take it from me, its not like I've never lived there for the majority of my life.

So what part of it was innacurate? Given that it's a 'typical British documentary?' (though I have pointed out it isn't British). You're just playing the hurt feelings victimhood card. Let's hear your critique.

Three, I am Russian, I have one passport and that passport has Citizen of Rossiskoi Federatsii written all over it. So unless you're trying to play the "he doesn't live in Russia now therefore his opinion doesn't matter card" its not gonna work. If I'm an American, how the can I not vote in their elections?

None of the 'Russians' seem to live in Russia on twc. That place must be pretty accurately depicted on documentaries.

[Henry of Grosmont]

History happens, Japan should really learn to get over it.

This video is . Typical British documentary portraying life as gray . Because we're Russians right? We dont know how to live? And Japan, the same country that cant even admit its involvement in Nanking wants 4 islands that are exclusively inhabited by Russians. But no one cares that they will be displaced.

Journeyman pictures is , and this isnt the only documentary I have seen of theirs. They are nothing more than propagandists.

One

[Deep_Red]

Give it to the Ainu.