Is this possible without irrational belief in the supernatural?

[Taiji]

The 'Witch' burning continues....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8119201.stm

Personally I see a lot of good within superstitious institutions like religions but sometimes I see a kind of evil that I find it hard to believe would happen without the kinds of assumptions that the religious are prone to make.

Very sad indeed to see where belief in the 'spiritual' might end up

[Arch-hereticK]

Well this seems to be a product of ignorance more so than superstition in that superstition is a product of ignorance in most instances.
I believe good education would solve this particular kind of problem.

Irrational belief (different to regular belief?) don't hurt anyone if curbed by knowledge.

[Taiji]

If A causes B and B causes C, it doesn't make sense to me to state that A is more a cause of C than B.

Especially if A is a fundamental part of human reality that cannot be changed when B is not.

Ignorance gets a bad press but you can't live without it.

Also something you 'know' is just something you believe with a strong conviction, when that kind of conviction is applied to an irrational belief it is no less knowledge for being stupid.

I agree with you that a good education would solve this problem but I wonder if we'd mean the same thing by 'good' and 'education'. With either I begin to feel inadequate to the task of designing it.

[Avendiel]

"Is this possible without irrational belief in the supernatural?"

What, burning people alive?

Sure. If there weren't any consequences for it, I'm sure people could convince themselves to do it for all sorts of reasons. Like "She looked at me funny." Or "I'm bored."

[lalo cura]

Also something you 'know' is just something you believe with a strong conviction, when that kind of conviction is applied to an irrational belief it is no less knowledge for being stupid.

In order for you to know that something is the case, that thing in fact has to *be* the case, doesn't it?

I can't know that it's raining outside if it isn't raining. Knowledge is a relationship between me and something in the outside world. If the outside world doesn't hold up it's end of the relation, then the relation (and, ergo, the knowledge) isn't there.

But to the original post, it's easy to think of ways in which this "kind of evil" could come about without the assumptions of religion.
Like Avendiel says:

"She looked at me funny." Or "I'm bored."

What's horrifying is this quote from the article, "I spent three days in Kisii trying to speak to the authorities, but nobody, neither the police nor the local government officials would talk to me." WTF?

[Taiji]

I don't know what gave you the impression that I was suggesting humans would become fire retardant if superstition were eliminated.

[Avendiel]

Well. There you have it.

[basics]

" Personally I see a lot of good within superstitious institutions like religions but sometimes I see a kind of evil that I find it hard to believe would happen without the kinds of assumptions that the religious are prone to make."

Taiji,

Religion has no place with God, never had and never will have. Religion is man's concept of what he thinks is of God never taking into concept what God thinks of it. Why so? Because what is God's is cared for by God, lived in by God and let's God deliver the justice that is His alone to deliver.

Religion has it's own rules and regulations where never the twain shall meet. There are dozens of them, most using the name of God, without actually really knowing God, yet they can put God's name to any atrocity devised by man in pursuit of their agendas. They live under the Law never managing to practise it for all their works are evil according to what God says about them.

[Taiji]

Good point Basics, I agree that an argument against religious superstition is not an argument for atheism. I certainly don't mean to imply that belief in or worship of God causes these kinds of atrocities at all. But perhaps if you allow yourself to engage in that kind of irrational behaviour, you are put more at risk of being exploited in the way these villagers clearly have been.

Belief in god can set the foundation for belief in demons.

[Playfishpaste]

Religion is not the only belief in supernature. At the same time, one can only hold beliefs in nature (lets say, naturalism or environmentalism) and still be this insane. It would not surprise me to see the most steadfast green advocates wholesale slaughtering big business owners if they got the chance.

Philosophy is a very powerful thing.

[Helm]

I once heard a story how they burned a man because they believe he had the power of penis withering.

[Taiji]

Religion is not the only belief in supernature. At the same time, one can only hold beliefs in nature (lets say, naturalism or environmentalism) and still be this insane. It would not surprise me to see the most steadfast green advocates wholesale slaughtering big business owners if they got the chance.

Philosophy is a very powerful thing.

I see what you mean and you do have a good point but I think killing people for things they have actually done and might do again makes a lot more sense than killing them for things they could only conceiveably have done if the conceiver believes in witches.

There's probably a few big businessmen I wouldn't mind killing for myself if I knew the extent of what they had done. Perhaps the world would have a good chance of becoming a better place for it. I think the chances of improving societies lot by killing 'witches' is much much smaller.

Incidently, I don't advocate killing people. Except perhaps in the war on desease, the collateral damage from vaccines, etc.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

This may sound sick, but if some people are going to be burning a witch alive, I'd really like to be there to see it

[finsternis]

Oh the atrocities of the world. Humans killings humans for the stupidest reasons. How funny they are.

[Khannis]

Irrational belief that leads to witch-burning is just the consequence.

Mass stupidity is the cause.

[Don in the North]

sad , sad waste of life.
youd think 200 years after Salem, people would realise theres no such thing as witches, warlocks, angels or demons, santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy or any of that make beleive stuff.

[MaximiIian]

The 'Witch' burning continues....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8119201.stm
Very sad indeed to see where belief in the 'spiritual' might end up

It's not so much "Belief in the supernatural" that is leading them to kill these people; because the people they're burning obviously believe in the supernatural as well. This is more of an example of extremely rigid dogmatism at work.

theres no such thing as witches

Besides, of course, individuals that practise witchcraft in modern day.
Unless you meant just the mythical version of a witch as portrayed in Mediaeval folklore.

[Don in the North]

self proclaimed witches of today are no more than spiritual herbalists, maybe alchemists. thats just my opinion.
but thats not why they are being killed in this instance, they are being killed based on the irrational superstition of witches having unnatural powers or abilities.
i guarantee if you questioned these christian kenyans (christian sects are the dominant religion there), they would nominate satan as being involved which is just appaling on so many levels.

[Ummon]

maybe alchemists.

Alchemy is a very complicated argument, much beyond witchcraft, alleged or supposed or whatever.

[MaximiIian]

self proclaimed witches of today are no more than spiritual herbalists, maybe alchemists. thats just my opinion.

Even if self-described witches were just that, the point is- they're there, so saying they "don't exist" is ignoring that fact.
And most self-described witches practise more than folk magic, and often dabble in ceremonial magic or theurgy. So, restricting their practices to "just" herbalism would be inaccurate and misleading, not to mentioned overly reductionist. Now, some self-described witches practise herbalism and not much else, but most modern witchcraft practitioners diversify their religious practices into other areas than that.

but thats not why they are being killed in this instance, they are being killed based on the irrational superstition of witches having unnatural powers or abilities.

Which was my point in the first place. This is a matter of dogmatism driving people to extremism. It isn't just "irrational superstition" period; it's more than that, and as said, has a lot to do with paranoia and dogmatic literalism in those highly traditionalist societies.