Eriador VH/VH, turn 65, Gondor eliminated

[DrakeRH]

I loaded the good vs evil mod so all the High Elves would stop attacking me. The diplomatic part works great. As Eriador I have Alliance and Trade with both Elves, Dwarves, Rohan, and Gondor. Trade with Dale, but relations just became good so Alliance can not be far off. OotMM are on the ropes. I even took Moria, found some finger-bling, gave Moria to the Dwarves in exchange for a town in the north west, Noenial or something (??).

Then I get a message Gondor has been eliminated. What?!??!?!?! I sent a spy down to see what's going on. Minas Tirith has fallen and all the other Gondorian cities are bandits. Uh, guys, you need to take a little time off from and make a little because you are going to need those babies, you know?

So, this campaign is toast. Once Mordor, Harad, Isengard, and Rhun finish gobbling up the defensless bandit cities, adding all that manpower and finance to their current holdings, there is no way Eriador, Elves, Dwarves, and Dale are going to beat them.

Is there some way to mod the game so factions that lose their last leader can spawn a new one if they have at least one city left? Could not the people of Gondor have selected a new Steward? It's not like these guys are royalty. We're talking civil servants. How hard can it be to pick a new one?

[Withwnar]

Could not the people of Gondor have selected a new Steward? It's not like these guys are royalty. We're talking civil servants. How hard can it be to pick a new one?

Ouch. I would not want to be in the same room if someone said that to Boromir.

Gondor is a critical faction in the overall campaign but they shouldn't be immortal. They have enough help as it is with the random spawning of troops. I feel your pain Drake but I'd be just as annoyed if the Silvans or Dwarves were wiped out from genocide.

[DrakeRH]

[quote=Withwnar;5444568]Gondor is a critical faction in the overall campaign but they shouldn't be immortal.[quote]

I am not thinking any faction should be immortal (except for the dark lord of course), but if you have ten cities and your last general dies, I don't think your civilization should disolve, be it Elven, Dwarven, Men, or Orcs. Somebody will always step up.

[Withwnar]

I am not thinking any faction should be immortal (except for the dark lord of course), but if you have ten cities and your last general dies, I don't think your civilization should disolve, be it Elven, Dwarven, Men, or Orcs. Somebody will always step up.

Ah, I see. No I don't think it should either but that's how the Total War game is. Not specific to TATW.

[Meneldil]

That's unnecessary and stupid.

Gondor was supposed to fall. It only stood because of a few individuals. Since Aragorn and the fellowship can't help Gondor in TATW, it's up to the player to do it.
Mind you, it might very well be difficult to reinforce Osgiliath and Minas Tirith with Eriador, but that's how it goes. Your campaign is not toasted.

So far, from all the campaigns I've played, evil is way underpowered as soon as the player plays on a global scale (ie. help other good guys). Furthermore, the only weak links are Gondor (who is not weak per se, but facing Mordor and Harad by itself) and Rohan (who most of the time get trashed by Isengard).
The OotMM get annihilated after a few early successes (mostly because they're isolated and surrounded by good guys) and Dale/Dwarves usually go on rampaging through Rhun.

When a faction is done, I see no reason to script its return. The Stewarts of Gondor were not a bunch of random dudes. They were coming from one of the most ancient and prestigious dynasty of Gondor. It's fair to assume to the kingdom would have disappeared after Denethor's death without the return of the King.

[Bela]

Gondor was supposed to fall. It only stood because of a few individuals. Since Aragorn and the fellowship can't help Gondor in TATW, it's up to the player to do it.

100% agree.
It is what most people do not understand: Gondor can not survive alone. If you play good faction and do not help them, they will fall (just like Rohan does usually). It is what TATW is about: do not throw the ring into the fire, but get some strong full stacks and help the good factions against the might of Mordor and its allies.

[DrakeRH]

I must not be playing Eriador correctly. I would have had to:

Annex the local independent towns;
Build my economy to provide money for local troops and the EEF (Eriador Expeditionary Force);
Build my military infrastructure so I could train something better than militia;
Fight off immediate threats like OotMM;
Make nice with Isengard so I could march through their lands in peace;
While simultaniously fighting Isengard to help Rohan survive;
Arriving in time to save Minas Tirith.

Isn't that kind of a lot to accomplish in 64 turns?

Gondor was not conquered, they disolved on turn 65.

[Vifarc]

I must not be playing Eriador correctly.
Gondor was not conquered, they disolved on turn 65.

Be happy: Eriador was lorewise dissolved but you can play it!!

When I won my Silvan Short Campaign, I started helping Gondor only at the end, when I was about to win (they had 3 settlements left). I couldn't help them before (but I helped Rohan).

[Withwnar]

Isn't that kind of a lot to accomplish in 64 turns?

Yes? Just unlucky that Gondor lost it's last family member perhaps. You have a point: I don't see how you can help Rohan and Gondor, without decent money and military might. To do it in 64 turns would be quite an achievement.

In my Silvan game I wasn't able to reach Gondor until much later than 64 turns. They were in a bad way but managing to hold on in the South West. Largely thanks to that spawning thing I mentioned (I suspect).

It's not really an Eriador-specific question I suppose but maybe take it up in the Eriador thread (is there one?) to discuss strategies with your fellow Eriadorians. In terms of reaching Gondor I mean.

[bentlemp]

Yes? Just unlucky that Gondor lost it's last family member perhaps. You have a point: I don't see how you can help Rohan and Gondor, without decent money and military might. To do it in 64 turns would be quite an achievement.

In my Silvan game I wasn't able to reach Gondor until much later than 64 turns. They were in a bad way but managing to hold on in the South West. Largely thanks to that spawning thing I mentioned (I suspect).

It's not really an Eriador-specific question I suppose but maybe take it up in the Eriador thread (is there one?) to discuss strategies with your fellow Eriadorians. In terms of reaching Gondor I mean.

When you retook those lands, did you give them back to Gondor? or keep them as Silvans?

[DeliCious.vP]

Third age takes place before FOTR hence they should be able to at least hold them of for 50 turns.

[Vifarc]

Gondor has been eliminated. What?!??!?!?! I sent a spy down to see what's going on. Minas Tirith has fallen and all the other Gondorian cities are bandits.

So, this campaign is toast. Once Mordor, Harad, Isengard, and Rhun finish gobbling up the defensless bandit cities, adding all that manpower and finance to their current holdings, there is no way Eriador, Elves, Dwarves, and Dale are going to beat them.

"Only" Harad, and a little Mordor, as Evil, will take the Gondor settlements.
Your campaign will be tough, but not deseperate. The Gondor settlement will be invaded too by High Elves and Rohan, maybe by Eriador too (as once Orcs and Isengard are dead, usually High Elves and Eriador do nothing: here they'll have a chance to fight Harad or Mordor!!).

[Æsir]

First of all - why do you need Gondor?? Stewards are usurpers of your Royal power - you have a chance to make true your dream of Reunited Kingdom!

[DrakeRH]

... why do you need Gondor??

Meat shield.

[Lioncross]

Meat shield.

You don't have to put it that way!

"By the blood meat of my people are your lands kept safe" Lololololollololol. -JL

When Rohan fell I got attacked from everywhere, so get ready! Not with all the arrows of the elven realm can you hold back Mordor and friends. Once Isengard, Misty Orcs, Harad and Isengard share borders, it's all over folks! They will find you, they will take the king, and you will beg for death before the end!

Best of luck!

[Momus]

I loaded the good vs evil mod so all the High Elves would stop attacking me. The diplomatic part works great. As Eriador I have Alliance and Trade with both Elves, Dwarves, Rohan, and Gondor. Trade with Dale, but relations just became good so Alliance can not be far off. OotMM are on the ropes. I even took Moria, found some finger-bling, gave Moria to the Dwarves in exchange for a town in the north west, Noenial or something (??).

Then I get a message Gondor has been eliminated. What?!??!?!?! I sent a spy down to see what's going on. Minas Tirith has fallen and all the other Gondorian cities are bandits. Uh, guys, you need to take a little time off from and make a little because you are going to need those babies, you know?

So, this campaign is toast. Once Mordor, Harad, Isengard, and Rhun finish gobbling up the defensless bandit cities, adding all that manpower and finance to their current holdings, there is no way Eriador, Elves, Dwarves, and Dale are going to beat them.

Is there some way to mod the game so factions that lose their last leader can spawn a new one if they have at least one city left? Could not the people of Gondor have selected a new Steward? It's not like these guys are royalty. We're talking civil servants. How hard can it be to pick a new one?

war isnt the problem, assassins are. bloody that they are

[OfficerJohn]

I think assassins should be thrown out of TATW and never come back.
Unless in a submod I won't play anyways...

[Abyrvalg]

I think assassins should be thrown out of TATW and never come back.
Unless in a submod I won't play anyways...

Agreed. When I pllayed Mordor and wiped Rohan with assasins I stopped and decided NEVER use assassins for assassination ().
I use them for sabotage only.

Btw, you'll have far more joy killing any great LOTR person on battlefield than using assassins.
'Last stand of Legolas' against hordes of orcs led by Nazgul in Mirkwood was amazing in my current game

[A1_Unit]

I've told everyone who hates assassins to remove them from EDB. Then you can post the modded EDB as an anti-assassin sub-mod OK?!?!?!

[kuba2384]

A little off-topic... similar situation in my Rohan game. In 70 turn (or something like that) Oomm was eliminated - by losing faction leader - and whole Misty Mountains became rebels. Couple turn later same thing happen in Isengard (some orc disease mayby?)
Ok, so I gather army and head toward Mordor (payback time for "Edoras invasion")
Well... they probably get scarred and perform some kind of hara-kiri, because as I get near Black Gate they ...was eliminated - by losing faction leader - and whole Mordor became rebels (BTW - it's a bit odd, how ORCS changed in HUMANS, rather it's should be ORCS rebel).

So... there would be nice if there is some way to mod the game so factions that lose their last leader can spawn a new one if they have at least one city left

...and I really sorry for my english