Thoughts on the Bermuda Triangle?

[Tuor]

I saw some random show on the history channel earlier about the Bermuda Triangle which got me wondering.

What is up with the Bermuda Triangle? What makes it so mysterious? Is there something paranormal going on there or is it something that can easily be explained scientifically? Post your opinions and what you actually know about the paranormal/scientific oddity.

[Pious Agnost]

That most people 'lost' in the Bermuda triangle, turn up somewhere else later

[Juvenal]

What is up with the Bermuda Triangle? What makes it so mysterious? Is there something paranormal going on there?

The Bermuda Triangle is a mysterious money-making phenomenon which has visited much bounty upon Charles Berlitz and numerous journalists and film makers.

Taken as a whole there is nothing all that mysterious about it. It is one of the busiest bits of sea in the world for non-commercial traffic. It often looks deceptively mild and safe, only to experience sudden changes of weather. There is also a significant amount of smuggling and drug-running going on, giving rise to yet more legions of inexperienced seamen with a strong aversion to accurately report events.

Just add the Bermuda Triangle to a long list of other popular mysteries such as The Roswell Alien, the Ancient Nazca airstrips, Velikovsky's colliding worlds, the Da Vinci Code, Graham Hancock's world-girdling lost civilization, Yetis and Bigfoot.

The Bermuda Triangle tells us something about ourselves, it highlights our yearning to make sense of the world by imposing patterns and explanations on it. In science-proper hypotheses are balanced by peer-review and the requirement for reproducible results. Psuedo-scientific theories cast this aside in favour of evangelism.

[Hounf of Culan]

All the data shows that it is no more dangerous than any other frequently traveled hunk of the ocean.

[Old_Scratch]

I've spent a lot of time in various parts of the Bermuda triangle and have never once experienced anything out of the ordinary.

[Orko]

Bad weather

PS 5000th post! Woohoo!

[Chaigidel]

@juvenal to put a global civilization in our distant past in the same category as davinci code or nazca airstrips is a little off

human beings have been at the same level of brain development for more than 30 thousand years, I think its presumptuous and concieted to think that human civilization has not risen and fallen countless times of which we have absolutely no knowledge.

[Arch-hereticK]

@juvenal to put a global civilization in our distant past in the same category as davinci code or nazca airstrips is a little off

human beings have been at the same level of brain development for more than 30 thousand years, I think its presumptuous and concieted to think that human civilization has not risen and fallen countless times of which we have absolutely no knowledge.

We have plenty of evidence of humans in that period, with bad diets and short life spans.
If they were part of a civilisation it was a pretty crappy civilisation.
What is possible though is that they civilised ones cremated their dead, but then their more advanced worked tools should exist along side the primitive ones.

[Juvenal]

@juvenal to put a global civilization in our distant past in the same category as davinci code or nazca airstrips is a little off

human beings have been at the same level of brain development for more than 30 thousand years, I think its presumptuous and concieted to think that human civilization has not risen and fallen countless times of which we have absolutely no knowledge.

I am not being either presumptuous or conceited, I am merely applying Occam's Razor. Humanity may have had the potential for forming civilizations for the last 30,000 years, but it does not appear to have actually happened until 12,000 years ago (coincidentally, just after the last Ice Age).

We have archaeological evidence for the beginning of agriculture and Archeozoological evidence for domestication of animals from around that time. Before that, human society would have consisted of small groups of hunter-gatherers. They may well have had a sophisticated verbal culture, there were just too few people too widely spread to have what we would recognise as a civilization.

If agriculture and domestication had happened earlier and been lost, then where is the archaeological evidence for this? I do not have to prove that earlier civilizations did not exist, it is up to those who support them to show their evidence. For example, in the UK you can hardly move for pottery shards, but there is no pottery anywhere in the world from before 12,000 years ago (found in Japan).

I was very disappointed with Graham Hancock because his theories were presented as serious (in two Channel 4 documentaries), but were based on narrowly selected and manipulated evidence. He has since been thoroughly debunked, but his response is to simply move his speculations out of reach of any possibility of rebuttal. I believe he has now decided that his world-girdling civilization (that supposedly built the old and new world pyramids and many other things) was based on Antarctica, so any evidence of it is under several miles of ice!

[Chaigidel]

I would like you to cite your "plenty of evidence" for humans 30 thousand years ago--- because we have almost nothing, we have almost nothing 15 thousand years ago; we only have lots of evidence for the past thousand years or so, shoddy evidence for the past 2 thousand, even weaker for the past 5-10 thousand and after that , we really dont have .

we have samplings of a rare human from this or that ancient time, almost none from the post toba period up until a few thousand years ago

and by reason alone--- stating that humans could have created a civilization before our current one is not at all like claiming aliens visit us, or that magical super empires existed--- its perfectly reasonable and supported by the fact that civilization has risen many times, in our brief period of having the ability to research it , we know about lots of peoples all the way back to when the black lake became the black sea--- because of the conditions which existed in the prolonged ice age on earth, a global civilization would not have been totally irrational to consider --- especially if you take into consideration the similiarity of myth structure among all the peoples of earth.( of course we can attribute this to the biological design of the human as well)

but just dont discount the tenacity of humanity and its ability to socialize in extremely complex ways.

[Arch-hereticK]

I would like you to cite your "plenty of evidence" for humans 30 thousand years ago--- because we have almost nothing, we have almost nothing 15 thousand years ago; we only have lots of evidence for the past thousand years or so, shoddy evidence for the past 2 thousand, even weaker for the past 5-10 thousand and after that , we really dont have .

we have samplings of a rare human from this or that ancient time, almost none from the post toba period up until a few thousand years ago

and by reason alone--- stating that humans could have created a civilization before our current one is not at all like claiming aliens visit us, or that magical super empires existed--- its perfectly reasonable and supported by the fact that civilization has risen many times, in our brief period of having the ability to research it , we know about lots of peoples all the way back to when the black lake became the black sea--- because of the conditions which existed in the prolonged ice age on earth, a global civilization would not have been totally irrational to consider --- especially if you take into consideration the similiarity of myth structure among all the peoples of earth.( of course we can attribute this to the biological design of the human as well)



but just dont discount the tenacity of humanity and its ability to socialize in extremely complex ways.

It is still a possibility, I'm not denying that. I am a major fan of BSG

Ok 30,000 was a bit of a stretch. But we do have what I consider a surprisingly large amount of data on the human species of 26,000 years ago, mostly from my study of ancient art.
So the worlds first wood (made of bone) wind instruments are from 35,000 years ago (and still work) which is just amazing.

New research suggests came into use in western Eurasia between 26,000 and 30,000 years ago.
Erik Trinkaus, Ph.D., the Mary Tileston Hemenway Professor of Physical Anthropology, derived those dates by analyzing anatomical evidence of early modern humans, which suggests a reduction in the strength of the smaller toes in Upper Paleolithic humans while there was little change in leg strength.
The first shoes being dated to 40,000 years ago.

While the evidence is not overwhelming, I consider it enough to be outright skeptical about human civilisation in this period.

If we're talking 70,000 years ago (Toba) there is a slightly stronger case. As far as I know leading up to that point the human population was drastically reduced (mysteriously) to a staggering estimation of 2000; global civilisation?. The theory of nuclear war that wiped the earth clean has been put forward which is kinda cool. It's also the time that the sahara started to develop rapidly.

I would consider this hypothesis to be equal to life elsewhere in the universe with a similar level of technology to us.

[Chaigidel]

but how much would actually remain of a society which existed 30-40 thousand years ago? pottery sherds ?? maybe but they would have degenerated so much---

oh I dont think it was any kind of super society, but I dont doubt that civilization has come and gone several times; on both small and large scales.

[Playfishpaste]

but how much would actually remain of a society which existed 30-40 thousand years ago? pottery sherds ?? maybe but they would have degenerated so much---

oh I dont think it was any kind of super society, but I dont doubt that civilization has come and gone several times; on both small and large scales.

There would be landmarks would there not? The pyramids are still there, and we would have found the tower at Babylon if it were real.

[Arch-hereticK]

but how much would actually remain of a society which existed 30-40 thousand years ago? pottery sherds ?? maybe but they would have degenerated so much---

oh I dont think it was any kind of super society, but I dont doubt that civilization has come and gone several times; on both small and large scales.

That depends on what defines civilisation for you, I'd have to insist on agriculture to be a major part. There would be surviving evidence of that; tools, towns(even wooden buildings) and larger grave sites than what we have found.

Gravettian figurines were not invented until 29,000-25,000 ago being the earliest known pottery. Judging from the crudity of the pieces I find it highly unlikely that pottery could exist before hand.

[Bongfu]

Cthulhu

[gambit]

Cthulhu

Seconded.

[Bongfu]

Seconded.

Some people just do not see my subtle truth

[Ummon]

Aaah, if only skeptics knew their stuff.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...ekli-tepe.html
http://www.eurasianet.org/department...v041708a.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobekli_Tepe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catal_Huyuk

For the photos:

http://www.forteantimes.com/features..._regained.html

[Ummon]

I have just posted links about buildings and cities originating from 12000 to 11000 years ago, if you don't mind. In the area of Biblical Ur, no less. But I guess the smithsonian institute is some kind of Graham Hancock hoax?

[Playfishpaste]

I have just posted links about buildings and cities originating from 12000 to 11000 years ago, if you don't mind. In the area of Biblical Ur, no less. But I guess the smithsonian institute is some kind of Graham Hancock hoax?

Actually they're just newly discovered neolithic temples and religious structures and small settlements. What you'd expect from the era, considering how old and complex Jericho was around the time.