The Insanity Defense.

[jsktrogdor]

I was thinking about this the other day and decided I couldnt really make my mind up without actually defining what the Insanity Defense is... wiki, do your magic:

In criminal trials, the insanity defenses are possible defenses by excuse, an affirmative defense by which defendants argue that they should not be held criminally liable for breaking the law, as they were legally insane at the time of the commission of alleged crimes.

What is "insane" then? (acording to US law)

a person suffering form a mental disease or defect is not responsible for his actions if he lacked the substantial capacity to (i) appreciate the criminality of his conduct, or (ii) conform his conduct to the law.

My question is this:

Isnt anyone who is willing to knowingly destroy a human life for a reason as petty as some people have, insane? Im pretty sure that its safe to say that every convicted criminal "lacked the substantial capacity to conform his conduct to the law".

Should we even have this option in our legal system?

Where do we draw the line?

Does a violent offender with mental illness deserve to suffer less than a violent offender without one?

Do the mentally ill deserve equality?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity_defense

[Katsumoto]

I agree with you, nowadays a lot of criminals are trying to use that defence to get less jail time.

[Manco]

Im pretty sure that its safe to say that every convicted criminal "lacked the substantial capacity to conform his conduct to the law".

I disagree. Mobsters, drugdealers, hitmen, thugs,... all are likely to kill people under certain circumstances and yet none of them is insane. They know that what they're doing is illegal, they are fully aware and are not forced to act thus by any mental illnesses or have their ability to discern legal from illegal impaired.

[jman47]

Hell i just say kill em all, the insanity defense is a paper excuse for murder.

[Manco]

Well, real sociopaths are inable to discern societal mores. Executing them is pointless, interning them is better.

But I agree the temporary insanity clause is used far too often.

[Gaidin]

Isnt anyone who is willing to knowingly destroy a human life for a reason as petty as some people have, insane? Im pretty sure that its safe to say that every convicted criminal "lacked the substantial capacity to conform his conduct to the law".

Overcharged emotion is not 'substantial capacity'.

[Orko]

There is one thing I don't understand:
Assuming there is some serial killer who's insane. In his trial he says that he's insane and manages to get out of jail because he is insane. Now, he is a serial killer and insane. Doesn't it mean he is more dangerous than the rest of criminals because he can't control himdelf and that he is still a danger to public safety? Why, then, keeping him free in the streets?

[finsternis]

I agree with Manco. Those gang members in my high school knew very well what they were doing and even took pride in it. Are they insane? No, they are just stupid.

EDIT:

@orko:

Well we don't keep them on the streets, we put them in institutions.

But you just made me notice something: can an insane person ever admit that he is insane? I mean, don;t insane people think that they are sane? If they knew they were insane, then they would just seek help willingly, no?

[Orko]

Well we don't keep them on the streets, we put them in institutions.

In some places they are just set free.

But you just made me notice something: can an insane person ever admit that he is insane? I mean, don;t insane people think that they are sane? If they knew they were insane, then they would just seek help willingly, no?

Well, I think you are right, actually.

[finsternis]

In some places they are just set free.

What?!?!?! Where? That is crazy!

[Gaidin]

But you just made me notice something: can an insane person ever admit that he is insane? I mean, don;t insane people think that they are sane? If they knew they were insane, then they would just seek help willingly, no?

Uhh...this is why prosecutors and defense attourneys pay psychiatrists for a diagnosis.

[Playfishpaste]

But you just made me notice something: can an insane person ever admit that he is insane? I mean, don;t insane people think that they are sane? If they knew they were insane, then they would just seek help willingly, no?

"Catch-22" is actually not correct on this point. Schizophrenics, for instance, can know all of the details about their disorder and be fully aware of it, they are however, still insane.

[Random Emperor]

Allowed but people which used this defense without being truly insane should be punished

[Avendiel]

It doesn't really bother me. If they're convicted they're going to be taken off the streets. I don't really care whether it's to a mental institution or a jail so long as either has the capacity to contain them and protect other inmates from them...in fact, by the second measure I'd almost rather they go to a mental institution.

[Bongfu]

Well I have a card that says I am legally insane... So does that mean I am not equal to other Americans? I have not killed anyone... that I know of.

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

When some claims the insanity defense, I would make it so it s their whole life up. Superimpose an 'I' over every photo ID they can ever get and maybe tattoo it on their foreheads. That way everyone knows that they are legally insane. They will in no way lose any rights, but they will be known for what they claimed to be for the rest of their lives. I bet that would cut back an the abuse of it.

[finsternis]

When some claims the insanity defense, I would make it so it s their whole life up. Superimpose an 'I' over every photo ID they can ever get and maybe tattoo it on their foreheads. That way everyone knows that they are legally insane. They will in no way lose any rights, but they will be known for what they claimed to be for the rest of their lives. I bet that would cut back an the abuse of it.

Not really, remember, these are people who don't actually care much about what society thinks of them. They are the "bad boys", the "cool guys" who don't take from anyone but "god".

Unless of course they are committing crimes for survival, which is another subject.

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

Not really, remember, these are people who don't actually care much about what society thinks of them. They are the "bad boys", the "cool guys" who don't take from anyone but "god".

Unless of course they are committing crimes for survival, which is another subject.

Yeah, but even though they dont really care, everyone will know them for what they claimed to be. Would you hire someone that is legally insane?

[finsternis]

Yeah, but even though they dont really care, everyone will know them for what they claimed to be. Would you hire someone that is legally insane?

Depends on his insanity. If all he does is talk to himself, that's not bad.

But still, when these people say that they are insane, do you think they are thinking it through? They are not thinking "wait, what if I finally decide to stop being a criminal and decide to get an honest job in the future. They won't take me because I said I am insane".
No, they are just thinking "what will get me less jail time" (or no jail time as they so in some countries, apparently, according to Orko).

[Gelgoog]

well in the criminal justice rings, the insanity defense rarely works. Something like 98% of insanity pleas are rejected.