Curial Committees

[Viking Prince]

GED made a comment in the Q&S that concerned me.

...I already posted links, what more direction do you need?? The "permanent" committees already have their own forum. The last post there was Nov of last year, and that was a resignation... The other "permanent" committees had their last posts in 2007! That is how interested the Curia is in their "permanent" proposals....

Sub-forum Curial Committees "seems" to be inactive.

These should be dissolved or activated. I do not know if they were created by a Curial vote or not. If they were, I would suppose they would need to be disolved by such a vote. Any further committees should have a sunset provision attached to the vote.

Comments or ideas as to what to do with these seemingly dead beasts?

[Каие]

Open them up again I say. I'll take part.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

I'd like to see more active Curial committees too, but they are opposed for some reason, see the last try.

[GrnEyedDvl]

In my opinion they are opposed because the people voting dont want to actually do any of the work. You are free to prove me wrong on that, but I suspect that will be hard to do since some of those forums havent been posted in for years, and as you say the latest one failed.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

In my opinion they are opposed because the people voting dont want to actually do any of the work.

It's a vicious circle, GED. You say, you don't trust people will do the work, but how can you trust them if you don't give them the chance? I'll bet a lot of citizens are willing to contribute to one of those committees upon Curial mandate.

You are free to prove me wrong on that, but I suspect that will be hard to do since some of those forums havent been posted in for years, and as you say the latest one failed.

Past experiences shouldn't limit our thinking.

[Каие]

I've already offered.

[GrnEyedDvl]

It's a vicious circle, GED. You say, you don't trust people will do the work, but how can you trust them if you don't give them the chance? I'll bet a lot of citizens are willing to contribute to one of those committees upon Curial mandate.

Dont give them a chance?? How in the world can you say that? Its posted publicly, and voted on publicly. Anyone can join those committes or form others by simply saying they want to be involved, they certainly dont need my permission. But nor should they need a handwritten invitation.

The committees are there, the TW committee failed to even pass a vote. How else should that be interpreted? There simply arent enough Citizens that are interested in participating, so nothing gets done.

Past experiences shouldn't limit our thinking.

No they shouldnt, and with new members there is always a chance that things will change.

I've already offered.

I see that, and I also believe the offer to be sincere. Hopefully you are not the only one. Call me cynical but I wouldnt hold my breath if I were you.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Dont give them a chance?? How in the world can you say that? Its posted publicly, and voted on publicly. Anyone can join those committes or form others by simply saying they want to be involved, they certainly dont need my permission. But nor should they need a handwritten invitation.

The committees are there, the TW committee failed to even pass a vote. How else should that be interpreted? There simply arent enough Citizens that are interested in participating, so nothing gets done.

Excusez-moi, but I didn't know anyone can get involved, I thought the groups are closed (example). My statement about not giving a chance referred to opposing future committees.

No they shouldnt, and with new members there is always a chance that things will change.

Certainly.

[Muizer]

Dont give them a chance?? There simply arent enough Citizens that are interested in participating, so nothing gets done.

History proves that is just not going to happen. The problem is it is often blamed on the citizens' inactivity. I say, you can do that once or twice, but if it keeps failing there has to come a point when you realise the failure is systematic and the whole approach of trying to legislate projects into existence is flawed.

[GrnEyedDvl]

when you realise the failure is systematic and the whole approach of trying to legislate projects into existence is flawed.

Then why have the Curia at all?

[Halie Satanus]

Then why have the Curia at all?

It's not the ''Curia'' that's the problem. It's the lack of people who will work as opposed to those who wish to delegate.

[Muizer]

Then why have the Curia at all?

Let's not try to find our reasons for playing a game in its rulebook. Materially (if there is such a thing in an online-community) the Curia is a microcosm where staff and forum regulars can interact. That probably accounts for 99% of what it has ever done.

[absinthia]

so what is the status of the mod registry and the wiki at the moment? and what purpose are they supposed to serve?
further, what are the purpose of the committees, is it to simply discuss stuff like a committee proper or actually get things done like a work-group?

[absinthia]

so what is the status of the mod registry and the wiki at the moment? and what purpose are they supposed to serve?
further, what are the purpose of the committees, is it to simply discuss stuff like a committee proper or actually get things done like a work-group?

i repeat my question...

[GrnEyedDvl]

Let's not try to find our reasons for playing a game in its rulebook. Materially (if there is such a thing in an online-community) the Curia is a microcosm where staff and forum regulars can interact.

That would be the Q & S where you will find that staff is much more active. Nearly everything posted in Q & S by staff is policy related, nearly everything posted in the Curia is opinion related.

That probably accounts for 99% of what it has ever done.

Again, then why is it needed?

i repeat my question...

I would say to get things done. If I were to take charge of the Wiki, I would then want 4 people directly under me each with their own assigned area: ETW, M2TW, RTW, and General Info. Maybe a 5th if we really wanted to cover all the Curial stuff really well.

Obviously I would want the 3 game related sections run by fairly decent modders. Their job would be to take all the accumulated knowledge of the modding forums and convert it to the Wiki format. There are tons of pages in the forums that have moved to the back of the forums because they are a year old or more, but still have very relevant solutions to modding problems that get asked frequently. The idea would be to have a well established reference tool that is easy to search. The search engine for the forum sucks, and unless vBulletijn actually comes through with their promise of an updated search engine then the Wiki is the best solution.

There is already a good start on that as several modders also post in the Wiki, but it sometimes is disorganized and could certainly be improved with a little planning.

The General Information person would be responsible for keeping member pages up to date with regard to elections and staff positions, Curial votes, Helios and other publication stuff.

The Wiki is a GREAT resource that is under utilized, and under developed.


If I was in charge of the Modding Registry I would also pool the Unit Repository into this section, and create a few other sections like Scripts and Maps, and then recruit a few people to help me organize. These people would not need to be modders at all.

The goal would be to get a list of every mod that the developer has freely released for the general public to use, and get them organized into categories that are easily searchable. I actually call this Plug N Play modding and have had several discussions with Aradan, Giga, AL, and others. If you break everything into categories, and then rework a few so that they are designed to run one one of the vanilla engines, then I could build XML based installers for each one of them that actually added the files and edited text files with no modding knowledge needed. So you could take your vanilla install of M2TW, install JoeBlow's new map and JaneDoe's new unit and someone elses campaign script by clicking a few buttons and picking a few options.

One day this will get done, but I am focusing on the Uni and tech stuff for now.

[Muizer]

That would be the Q & S where you will find that staff is much more active. Nearly everything posted in Q & S by staff is policy related, nearly everything posted in the Curia is opinion related.

In the past, new staff was recruited almost exclusively from the Curia That was the microcosm I was referring to. I agree that is no longer the case to the same extent as it once was (though I would hardly say the Q&S has taken over that function).
The whole mystique of member participation through an RPG will also have exerted a pull (and in some cases push) on new members, compared to the anonymous anarchy that exists in other large forums.
Over the past couple of years, though, the Curia's role has shifted to being the site's main award committee and both its influence in staff and appeal to outsiders has waned.

Again, then why is it needed?

I've tried to give an explanation of the Curia's role on TWC, past and present. I'm not going to take its existence as a given and justify its continuation as an official TWC feature at all cost. There are others far better at doing that

[pannonian]

In the past, new staff was recruited almost exclusively from the Curia That was the microcosm I was referring to. I agree that is no longer the case to the same extent as it once was (though I would hardly say the Q&S has taken over that function).
The whole mystique of member participation through an RPG will also have exerted a pull (and in some cases push) on new members, compared to the anonymous anarchy that exists in other large forums.
Over the past couple of years, though, the Curia's role has shifted to being the site's main award committee and both its influence in staff and appeal to outsiders has waned.

Moderating staff are still recruited from the citizen body, ie. those who are able to participate in the Curia. However, selection is done by senior staff rather than election. The result is a less curially-centred staff. However, it's also meant that staff can be chosen and evaluated by people who are best placed to judge. It's probably a choice between democracy and professionalism, and since Ian's takeover there's been a drive towards the latter.

[GrnEyedDvl]

To be fair to Muizer I think he is referring to the ratification votes we used to have.

I've tried to give an explanation of the Curia's role on TWC, past and present. I'm not going to take its existence as a given and justify its continuation as an official TWC feature at all cost. There are others far better at doing that

I would say nobody is any better at that than you, since nobody has ever given a solid reason. Not that I have seen at least.

But also dont mistake what I am saying. I think the Curia definitely has a place and a reason for existence. However I dont think that it has ever been utilized properly.

Another thing I find a bit curious, is that not one single person responded to my post about how I would run the Wiki and Modding Registry if I took them over. Not one person said "GED You are full of crap, it should be done this way." or "GED That sounds good but what about this..." or "GED go for it." There are two general outlines already laid out if someone wants to take them over, or come up with a different plan entirely, and the only response is apathy. How pathetic.


That is the most telling thing to be seen in this thread. We have one person, Rome kb8, who said he would step up and do something, in a thread where the OP is about lack of participation. Rome I hope you took my advice and are not holding your breath, it seems like you are going to be a bit lonely if you want to take on some of these tasks that have been neglected.

[GrnEyedDvl]

In the example you provided, the ToS Committee, there was an open application thread that ran for a week or so before Garb posted that list. With the others anyone expressing a desire to get the ball rolling again the the Curator would probably be a good way to start.

[Empress Meg]

GED made a comment in the Q&S that concerned me.



Sub-forum Curial Committees "seems" to be inactive.

These should be dissolved or activated. I do not know if they were created by a Curial vote or not. If they were, I would suppose they would need to be disolved by such a vote. Any further committees should have a sunset provision attached to the vote.

Comments or ideas as to what to do with these seemingly dead beasts?

What comittees does the Curia feel the need to activate? I am all for getting them going again (to chair one as per the Con) if there is a need and active hands. Make up a team and get it going again. There's no pre-reqs.

As to removing them that too is easy enough. The only one I would stress to keep alive is the TWC member award committee since it is now a yearly treat in which all may participate.

What needs looking into or removing completely?

Devoirs The Empress