When Besieged, enemy drops siege equiptment WTF?

**gargarensi** · June 21, 2009, 11:23 PM

Is anybody else getting this problem? When I'm besieged, rather then the enemy actually using their siege equiptment (rams, towers, ladders) They simply drop them and move away from the area, thus forcing me to salyl out and meet them on the battlefield. It's increbibly frustrating when I have set up all my men in perfect defensive positions only to have to move them to face the enemy. Happened every single time now, And yes, I have version 1.1

**JuL14n** · June 22, 2009, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by gargarensi

Is anybody else getting this problem? When I'm besieged, rather then the enemy actually using their siege equiptment (rams, towers, ladders) They simply drop them and move away from the area, thus forcing me to salyl out and meet them on the battlefield. It's increbibly frustrating when I have set up all my men in perfect defensive positions only to have to move them to face the enemy. Happened every single time now, And yes, I have version 1.1

When you are sieged, and you attack them, the AI is thinking: come out if you wan't to fight me!
And when they attack it's more like: Son-of-a-

I wan't your settlement!

So if you wan't them to use their rams and siege towers, you have to wait until they attack
you.

Player besieged > AI attack > Offensive AI
Player besieged > Player attack > Defensive AI

**Sevachenko** · June 22, 2009, 12:05 AM

Hes right, I've found it better to ride out and meet them head on anyways

. It also adds to the epicness of things.

**Warmaster Tibs** · June 22, 2009, 03:46 AM

If you attack the AI's units using the equipment in meele they will drop it and wont pick it back up. They only pick back up the ram. Or as the others have said your sallying out.

I have never seen the AI starve me out though.

**jinjo** · June 22, 2009, 07:53 AM

ya u should wait if u want see them with rams, etc.

**Gothic Revenge** · June 23, 2009, 04:50 AM

If you want them to attack you, don't sally out and fight them head on.... If you do sally out, they will drop their euqipment and form up to fight you..... however... once they beat your units or you withdraw I have seen them pick up their siege equipment again and continue their attack..... this does not happen often.... so it might have to do something with the experience/ancilleries etc.. the general has leading them......

**Ranger of Ithilien** · June 29, 2009, 10:02 PM

i think RC/RR Lore fix this issue.. i never had problems with it... here is the link http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=259833

**Space Voyager** · June 30, 2009, 02:06 AM

This is NOT a problem. They drop siege equipment because if you sally out they will not need it until you retreat back. Why hold on to a ladder when the enemy is coming out?!

**Andurath** · June 30, 2009, 02:14 AM

Sally has a secondary advantage. If you kill enough of the enemy you can stop attacking and your sally will be considered succesful. Might be a bit of an AI manipulation but I do it all th etime when I don't have enough arrows to kill them all or they just outnumber me I kill half thier forces and then stop the battle I get a victory and then kill them more easily next turn when they attack....if they attack.

**Kawee** · June 30, 2009, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Andurath

Sally has a secondary advantage. If you kill enough of the enemy you can stop attacking and your sally will be considered succesful. Might be a bit of an AI manipulation but I do it all th etime when I don't have enough arrows to kill them all or they just outnumber me I kill half thier forces and then stop the battle I get a victory and then kill them more easily next turn when they attack....if they attack.

That's assuming one has the battle time limit on. Some people don't use the battle time limit, so this trick would not work.

**P|A|ntZ** · June 30, 2009, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kawee

That's assuming one has the battle time limit on. Some people don't use the battle time limit, so this trick would not work.

Not true. I play with no time limit, and when you want to quit a sally battle, just his ESC and Quit Battle. There will be a prompt that has a message for loss, draw or victory. Something like:

Are you sure you want to quit? You will lose this battle. (loss)
Your sally has been successful. Do you want to quit? (draw)
You have won this battle. Do you want to quit? (victory)

I've found that the game is a little fickle when deciding if you've drawn or lost. Sometimes you have to make sure to pull all of your forces back inside your gates or you may risk getting a loss. I don't know precisely what determines the victory/draw conditions for a sally, but it's not just how many kills you get. My suspicion is that you need to raise the balance of forces bar above the mid-point, but I'm not sure.

Does anyone else know what the victory/draw conditions are for a successful sally?

**Andurath** · June 30, 2009, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by P|A|ntZ

Does anyone else know what the victory/draw conditions are for a successful sally?

I too would like a clear answer to this question, and thank you for your clarifications.

I am not sure if what I am doing is the most precise, I just kill them until thier power bar is less than mine and I always withdraw back into my City/Fortress before I hit the leave battle button.
I have never lost a sally this way yet.

The AI is rather dumb about this. I can sally with a full archer force in relative safety even when they have Wargs or other mounted troops. That is as long as I have towers that can shoot at the enemy. Even if I don't if I am very careful to withdraw soon enough I can usually get back in the city before the wargs or Cavalry get to me and then they will tend to withdraw at the wall. Occaisionally it has spurred a full assault but only once or twice in dozens of sieges.The mounted troops almost always withdraw when they get in range of the tower, so a little running back and forth and you can wipe out any particular threat the enemy has. I have been careful not to shoot thier trolls though I imagine that would have the same effect, however I haven't been willing to take the chance on a unit with unbreakable morale.

**Mystific** · July 01, 2009, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by P|A|ntZ

Not true. I play with no time limit, and when you want to quit a sally battle, just his ESC and Quit Battle. There will be a prompt that has a message for loss, draw or victory. Something like:

Are you sure you want to quit? You will lose this battle. (loss)
Your sally has been successful. Do you want to quit? (draw)
You have won this battle. Do you want to quit? (victory)

I've found that the game is a little fickle when deciding if you've drawn or lost. Sometimes you have to make sure to pull all of your forces back inside your gates or you may risk getting a loss. I don't know precisely what determines the victory/draw conditions for a sally, but it's not just how many kills you get. My suspicion is that you need to raise the balance of forces bar above the mid-point, but I'm not sure.

Does anyone else know what the victory/draw conditions are for a successful sally?

If your sally does not cause the enemy to go off in a full rout, then you MUST have all your units back inside the walls before you exit battle. When this happens, it will always be a draw no matter how much of the enemy you killed.

If you exit the battle without pulling back your units then you lose the settlement, so be careful.

**MaxTurbator** · June 30, 2009, 11:01 AM

I have never have had the problem you describe (I also play v1.1 + DarthMod Battle Mechanics )
What i do is to keep 2/3 catapults in my settlement, so when it is attacked i only get these out and i destroy their ram or towers!
It doesn't always work (can't destroy every single one before they reach the walls) but at least i can concentrate my defense at the fewer breached points.

**A1_Unit** · June 30, 2009, 07:14 PM

Vanilla AI is very stupid when it comes to sieges.

**Taiji** · July 01, 2009, 09:07 AM

It seems odd to get so many responses about the issue being caused by you sallying when you do not mention doing it. Try updating your BAI with Germanicu5' latest offering in the submods section unless everyone bar me is actually psychic and you are sallying...

**Andurath** · July 01, 2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Taiji

It seems odd to get so many responses about the issue being caused by you sallying when you do not mention doing it. Try updating your BAI with Germanicu5' latest offering in the submods section unless everyone bar me is actually psychic and you are sallying...

Maybe we are psychic. Maybe you arent married..if you were you'd know that being psychic is a requirement for the job!

Hehe

Seriously though do you know of any other behavior during a siege that the enemy runs back away from his siege equipment? Because I am not aware of any.