Shield Wall Use?

[s/laughter]

recently getting back into RTW after a long hiatus... this time playing off the BI .exe, which I didn't have back in the day..

I'm playing XGM now, and just wondering what are the uses of this shield wall formation?? I tried to set it up defensively at first, but it seemed like my guys wouldn't hold ground but started automatically advancing into the enemy (this was in a crowded street fight during a siege)

hmm, I haven't really used it much since then... I've tried it out here and there, but I can't figure out the advantages of it.. is it defensive or offensive in nature?? best against cav or inf? etcetera..

basic stuff I guess, but who else can I ask?

[Publius Quirinus]

The best description I've heard of a shield wall is that it's like a phalanx, but more defensive in nature. I rarely use shield wall myself, but I've heard that it's good for withstanding charges, and if you've only got a small section you need to defend, like a gate, then the compact formation will probably work to your advantage.

[Total Roach]

Shield wall is great, especially on the defensive, almost nothing will get through Hoplites in Shield wall, even if they are flanked they edge of the wall turns out to face them. Use the formation, you'll deal out more casualties and take less than you would in the regular formation, your hoplites will laugh at your enemy trying to break through.

As many exp and upgrades to the unit does also affect this statement obviously


As for the problem in the town, yeah, they creep forward, but put them in pairs with a slight gap line astern, the one behind will kill anyone getting through the gaps at the pavement area, add a thorakitai unit behind the 2 of them just for fun You can destroy whole armies this way.

[Zarax]

You can also use shield wall to penetrate phalanxes with less casualties than you would usually get, beware that elephants will still laugh at your men even with that on.

[Subrosa Florens]

I love shield wall. It is the thing I miss most about playing with the Alexander executable. I found that units using shield wall will generally chew up phalanxes from the front (given that they are at least roughly equal to start with of course). They do even better against other infantry.

One of the FATW guys said that in their testing they found that units in shield wall actually did better on the attack then on the defensive as well. While I never did any real testing myself, my own experiences lead me to believe it.

[Scutarii]

Well, anything in shield wall is a great phalanx breaker. That's its main use for me. Just as a by the way, make sure your troops are in guard mode if you don't want them to push forward.

[s/laughter]

cool. thanks a bunch!

[Belisarius500]

what units have the shield wall special ability?i've benn playing GSC for about 100 years now and haven't spotted that ability yet

[Publius Quirinus]

Um, I think ordinary Greek hoplites have that formation? As do the city-specific hoplites. Though if you're not playing on BI.exe (whether RTW or Alex) you won't see it, the shield wall is BI-specific I think.

[DimeBagHo]

Quirinal is correct, it's a BI-only feature, and Hoplite style units are the only units that get it in XGM.

[Belisarius500]

same as hording...too bad

are there any other major differences between playing BI and RTW?which would you recommend?

[magraev]

BI is better than RTW I believe. Alex is useful since you can keep traditional AI-allies from attacking each other. This makes the AI more than a challenge.

[xjlxking]

I noticed that when you put units in Shield Wall, they get a nasty habit to attack from the back. It's will look like they are getting flanked, but in reality they aren't

[devilbean]

I used to play with the BI exe and got fed up because it's not nearly as stable. I remember I'd get CTDs all the time, and now with classic RTW it's all good. Kinda miss the shield wall though. Is anyone having big stability issues with the current release of XGM and the BI exe? I might give it another chance just for fun.

[Diomede]

I started off on normal RTW and switched to BI.exe mainly because I like defensive campaigns Slaughtering Romans or whatever else when they tried crossing the Rhine gets boring, especially with chosen slingers or archers. At least some units swim now.
No stability issues to speak of, but there is the unavoidable seige bug when you kill the garrison.

[Hurlbut]

okay lemme get this; a regular phalangite unit can get beat by a hoplite unit in shield wall with all things being equal (xp and equip bonuses)?

[xjlxking]

okay lemme get this; a regular phalangite unit can get beat by a hoplite unit in shield wall with all things being equal (xp and equip bonuses)?

Yes

[Hurlbut]

That's really silly considering that the phalangite phalanx was the reason the old hoplite style phalanx become obsolete.

[Diomede]

Come to think of it, yeah. lol.
I wish Iberia's scutarii could shield wall. But then you'd have to do that for the legions too... scary.

[Hurlbut]

Come to think of it, yeah. lol.
I wish Iberia's scutarii could shield wall. But then you'd have to do that for the legions too... scary.

The legionaires used a dense formation, tight enough that they couldn't wield their swords with a full range of movement, when facing against certain things like cavalry charge or in defense. Normally they fought in an open formation (not loose and disordered like many tribal warriors) as to use their swords effectively

The point is that the legion only fought in a shield wall in certain situation. Although truth be told, tetsudo formation is FAR more situational than a shield wall formation.