Macedonians Greek?

[ChrisJoker]

hi guys i wanted to see what people think about the macedonians if they were a greek tribe or just another barbarian tribe who came out of nowhere and tried to act greeK?.Also do u guys think Alexandros and his dad Philippos were greek or macedonian and also of their dynasty, what if maybe the kings of macedon were of hellenic blood who ruled the macedonian who were a diferent race or some other explanation because there seems to be alot of confusion about that.
Glad to be back and when is the next preview if u dont mind me asking

[apple]

The next preview (a music one) is to be posted this month.

[ChrisJoker]

The next preview (a music one) is to be posted the month.

sound great but i dont get u this month or in a month?

[pacco]

Hmmm, not sure that those questions belong here (RS forum). And your questions can insult someone here.
Go to Discussion and Debate thread.

[Aradan]

"... I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery ..."
Alexander I, King of Macedon (Herodotus, The Histories, 9.)

[ChrisJoker]

"... I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery ..."
Alexander I, King of Macedon, talking to the king of the Persians says: (Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II,14,4)

yes he said that but yet he fought the greeks and massecerd them, detroyed thebes because they didnt want the rule from the macedonians whom the greeks called barbarians,he didnt not accept the hellenes spartans to be his brothers,he enslaved the greeks,if he said he was greek then he must not been his mother was from royal family of the mossolians(Epeiros)whom the greeks aswell called barbarians wich did not make him pure blood greek if he even was,and after years of macedonian rule in greece many sought help from the romans to free them from macedon(hmm hmm excuse for rome to take new land)and so many other greek hstorinans point out that themacedonians were a different peoples from the greeks.

[Douchebag]

yes he said that but yet he fought the greeks and massecerd them, detroyed thebes because they didnt want the rule from the macedonians whom the greeks called barbarians,he didnt not accept the hellenes spartans to be his brothers,he enslaved the greeks,if he said he was greek then he must not been his mother was from royal family of the mossolians(Epeiros)whom the greeks aswell called barbarians wich did not make him pure blood greek if he even was,and after years of macedonian rule in greece many sought help from the romans to free them from macedon(hmm hmm excuse for rome to take new land)and so many other greek hstorinans point out that themacedonians were a different peoples from the greeks.

You've been brainwashed.

[apple]

Sorry I meant this month.

[Nikos]

es he said that but yet he fought the greeks and massecerd them

In the Peloponnessian war and other smaller conflicts the Greeks fought each other as well.

detroyed thebes because they didnt want the rule from the macedonians whom the greeks called barbarians,he didnt not accept the hellenes spartans to be his brothers

Incorrect, only one Greek (Demosthenes of Athens) called Phillip (not the Macedonians)a Barbarian because he did not want Macedonia to take over the Hegemony of Greece and for Athens to lose her independence.

he enslaved the greeks,if he said he was greek then he must not been his mother was from royal family of the mossolians(Epeiros)whom the greeks aswell called barbarians wich did not make him pure blood greek if he even was,and after years of macedonian rule in greece many sought help from the romans to free them from macedon(hmm hmm excuse for rome to take new land)and so many other greek hstorinans point out that themacedonians were a different peoples from the greeks.

Uh, Olympias was not a mossolian, she was the daughter of the King of Epeiros and a member of the Aeacidae. And how does the Greek cities wanting to be independent from Macedonian rule not make the Macedonians Greek?

[ChrisJoker]

In the Peloponnessian war and other smaller conflicts the Greeks fought each other as well.

Incorrect, only one Greek (Demosthenes of Athens) called Phillip (not the Macedonians)a Barbarian because he did not want Macedonia to take over the Hegemony of Greece and for Athens to lose her independence.

Uh, Olympias was not a mossolian, she was the daughter of the King of Epeiros and a member of the Aeacidae. And how does the Greek cities wanting to be independent from Macedonian rule not make the Macedonians Greek?

from what i learned most evidence points to the macedonians being a seperate group from the greeks and such evidence in mordern greece is mislead to point the macedonian as being greek mainly because its their excuse to justify their hold on the state of macedon.majority of people in the state and country of macedon are not macedonians just a mix of slavs,vlads,bulgars little greek and turk,goths ect.and if u make bold claims saying the macedonians are greek without any sourgt of proof about a people who their history and origins are shrouded in mystery and because u like to think their greek so now alexander is greek like u is just pure ignorance.

[Douchebag]

from what i learned most evidence points to the macedonians being a seperate group from the greeks and such evidence in mordern greece is mislead to point the macedonian as being greek mainly because its their excuse to justify their hold on the state of macedon.majority of people in the state and country of macedon are not macedonians just a mix of slavs,vlads,bulgars little greek and turk,goths ect.and if u make bold claims saying the macedonians are greek without any sourgt of proof about a people who their history and origins are shrouded in mystery and because u like to think their greek so now alexander is greek like u is just pure ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_...vic_migrations

[ChrisJoker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_...vic_migrations

wikipedia at time lies u shouldnt trust them to much but what they say in that article is true i already know that.they even say boldly that the Maces are greek just almost all the other sites in the internet but few show the study made by americans from universitys that its just lies and just propaganda.(i wish i could show the link but i dont know how to)

[Nikos]

from what i learned most evidence points to the macedonians being a seperate group from the greeks and such evidence in mordern greece is mislead to point the macedonian as being greek mainly because its their excuse to justify their hold on the state of macedon.majority of people in the state and country of macedon are not macedonians just a mix of slavs,vlads,bulgars little greek and turk,goths ect.and if u make bold claims saying the macedonians are greek without any sourgt of proof about a people who their history and origins are shrouded in mystery and because u like to think their greek so now alexander is greek like u is just pure ignorance.

That is a load of BS, I just gave you historical evidence of Macedonians being Greek and you call it ignorance without giving any evidence yourself? Kind of bold don't you think?
Since you seem to think I use propaganda, here is some more historical truth for you.

Pella curse tablet:

1. [ΘΕΤΙ]ΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΟΣ ΤΟ ΤΕΛΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΓΑΜΟΝ ΚΑΤΑΓΡΑΦΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΠΑΣΑΝ ΓΥ2. [ΝΑΙΚ]ΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΧΗΡΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΩΝ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ ΔΕ ΘΕΤΙΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΚΑΤΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ ΜΑΚΡΩΝΙ ΚΑΙ3. [ΤΟΙΣ] ΔΑΙΜΟΣΙ ΚΑΙ ΟΠΟΚΑ ΕΓΟ ΤΑΥΤΑ ΔΙΕΛΕΞΑΙΜΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΑΓΝΟΙΗΝ ΠΑΛLΙΝ ΑΝΟΡΟΞΑΣΑ4. [ΤΟΚΑ] ΓΑΜΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΑ ΠΡΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΔΕ ΜΗ ΜΗ ΓΑΡ ΛΑΒΟΙ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑ ΑΛΛ Η ΕΜΕ5. [ΕΜΕ Δ]Ε ΣΥΝΚΑΤΑΓΗΡΑΣΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΗΔΕΜΙΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΙΚΕΤΙΣ ΥΜΩΝ ΓΙΝΟ6. [ΜΑΙ ΦΙΛ]ΑΝ ΟΙΚΤΙΡΕΤΕ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΕΣ ΦΙΛ[Ο]Ι ΔΑΓΙΝΑΓΑΡΙΜΕ ΦΙΛΩΝ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΕΡΗΜΑ ΑΛΛΑ7. [....]Α ΦΥΛΑΣΣΕΤΕ ΕΜΙΝ Ο[Π]ΩΣ ΜΗ ΓΙΝΕΤΑΙ ΤΑ[Υ]ΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΚΑ ΚΑΚΩΣ ΘΕΤΙΜΑ ΑΠΟΛΗΤΑΙ8. [....]ΑΛ[-].ΥΝΜ .. ΕΣΠΛΗΝ ΕΜΟΣ ΕΜΕ ΔΕ [Ε]Υ[Δ]ΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΑΚΑΡΙΑΝ ΓΕΝΕΣΤΑΙ9. [-]ΤΟ[.].[-].[..]..Ε.Ε.Ω[?]Α.[.]Ε..ΜΕΓΕ [-] 1. On the formal wedding of [Theti]ma and Dionysophon I write a curse, and of all other2. wo[men], widows and virgins, but of Thetima in particular, and I entrust upon Makron and3. [the] demons that only whenever I dig out and unroll and re-read this,4. [then] may they wed Dionysophon, but not before; and may he never wed any woman but me;5. and may [i] grow old with Dionysophon, and no one else. I [am] your supplicant:6. Have mercy on [your dear one], dear demons, Dagina(?), for I am abandoned of all my dear ones.7. But please keep this for my sake so that these events do not happen and wretched Thetima perishes miserably8. and to me grant [ha]ppiness and bliss.

This was written by a Macedonian woman in the 4th century BC, it is clearly a form of Doric Greek and not a "mystery language". Even I, with a limited knowledge of Modern and Ancient Greek can understand most of the tablet. And certainly ALL Greek speakers can read it. Why would the Macedonians use another people's language and alphabet?

The Persian Empire called the Macedonians "Yuana Takabara" (Greeks with hats) because of the distinctive Macedonian hat(The Kausia)


Look at the coins, all in Greek


It says "Macedonians first"

Would you like more proof, because there is lots more where that came from.

[ChrisJoker]

That is a load of BS, I just gave you historical evidence of Macedonians being Greek and you call it ignorance without giving any evidence yourself? Kind of bold don't you think?
Since you seem to think I use propaganda, here is some more historical truth for you.

Pella curse tablet:

This was written by a Macedonian woman in the 4th century BC, it is clearly a form of Doric Greek and not a "mystery language". Even I, with a limited knowledge of Modern and Ancient Greek can understand most of the tablet. And certainly ALL Greek speakers can read it. Why would the Macedonians use another people's language and alphabet?

The Persian Empire called the Macedonians "Yuana Takabara" (Greeks with hats) because of the distinctive Macedonian hat(The Kausia)


Look at the coins, all in Greek


It says "Macedonians first"

Would you like more proof, because there is lots more where that came from. Or has your pathetic argument been defeated?

chill dude im sorry but that is just evidence not prof thats like saying if the roman had a very similar culture to the greeks it must make them greeks.u should study more the dialects and languages in the time of the Myceanean period were greek language comes from it spread in many parts of greece(how can i show a link?)

[Nikos]

chill dude im sorry but that is just evidence not prof thats like saying if the roman hade a very similar culture to the greeks it must make them greeks.u shouldn study more the dialects and languages in the time of th myceanean period were greek langage comes from it spread in many parts of greece(how can i show a link?)

How is them using the Greek language, worshiping the Greek gods, using the Greek alphabet, having the Persians call them Greeks, and the Romans calling them Greeks not proof? What counts as proof for you? This is nothing like saying the Romans were Greek, the Romans had a very different culture from the Greek culture, the Macedonians WERE a part of Greek culture.

[apple]

I can't care less about being greek or not, what does it matter. We are all humans and that's what's counts.

[Nikos]

Anyway I can't care less about being greek or not, what does it matter. Your human and that's what's counts.

Just fun discussion.

[apple]

Just keep it clean.

[Nikos]

Just keep it clean.

Roger that sir!

[Aradan]

yes he said that but yet he fought the greeks and massecerd them, detroyed thebes because they didnt want the rule from the macedonians whom the greeks called barbarians,he didnt not accept the hellenes spartans to be his brothers,he enslaved the greeks,if he said he was greek then he must not been his mother was from royal family of the mossolians(Epeiros)whom the greeks aswell called barbarians wich did not make him pure blood greek if he even was,and after years of macedonian rule in greece many sought help from the romans to free them from macedon(hmm hmm excuse for rome to take new land)and so many other greek hstorinans point out that themacedonians were a different peoples from the greeks.

You're mixing your facts, somewhat...

1. You're talking about the wrong Alexander (who, btw, said himself that he was a greek and was recognised as such)
2. Ancient greeks killed each other all the time, they killed, enslaved and massacred each other constantly and called each other barbarian a lot (for instance, Akarnanians were called by other barbarians because they lived ruraly, yet they were beyond any doubt greeks).
3. Macedonians were allowed to compete in the Olympics, which at the time were strictly greek-only.
4. Show me a greek historian who claims macedonians are not greeks, please.
5. You are confusing politics with genetics. Demosthenes accused macedonians of being barbarians because he didn't wnat them to lead the greeks and so make Athens lose its leading role in the affairs of the greeks. And of course when Romans came, the soutehrn greeks saw it as a chance to get rid of macedonian rule. Politics, not genetics.


Here's some more:

"The country by the sea which is now called Macedonia... Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from Argos" Thucydides 99,3 (Loeb, C F Smith)
"For I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery". Herodotus IX, 45, 2 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know" Herodotus V, 22, 1 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
"It is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom, to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race". Isocrates, To Philip, 127 (Loeb, G. Norlin)
"Argos is the land of your fathers". Isocrates, To Philip, XII, 32 (Loeb, G. Norlin)
"But Alexander proving himself to be an Argive, he was judged to be a Greek; so he contended in the furlong race and ran a dead heat for the first place". Herodotus V, 22, 2 (Loeb, A. D. Godley)


If you want we can move this to a more appropriate forum? I wouldn't want RS's forum to become Mudpit.