Unit scale tweeks on TATW 1.2.

**Smaug** · June 16, 2009, 09:17 AM

This is a frank suggestion to the devs:

There has been many discussions here about the unit sizes and battle scales and how to make them realistic but functioning in accordance with the faction characteristics. The solution seems to have been that orcish factions have quicker unit pool replenish rate, cheaper recruitment and upkeep costs and a tad bigger individual unit size than other factions. This resulted, however, only to multiply the orcish armies in the campaign map when compared to good factions. In the battle map the outcome of two full stacks fighting still is number-wise relatively even. It definately does not have the epic feeling of hordes of orcs swarming on outnumbered free people.

To enhance the experience of epicness and lore realism, especially between elves/dwarves and orcs, why not significantly reduce the unit size of the 'free people' but correspondingly increase their stats? This shouldn't unbalance the game in any way if properly done. Although it is some extra work for the devs.

Humbly greatful to play such a fantastic game,

Kikka

**Beorn** · June 16, 2009, 09:20 AM

Look at RR\Rc submod please...

**Smaug** · June 16, 2009, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Beorn of Carrok

Look at RR\Rc submod please...

I think this issue is significant enough to be included in the vanilla.

And yes indeed I'm talking about something much more radical differences than the current system.

**Warmaster Tibs** · June 16, 2009, 09:20 AM

There is a sub mod dedicated to this. RC/RR

**Jean=A=Luc** · June 16, 2009, 09:23 AM

Even in vanilla 1.1 the good factions have higher stats/lower unit sizes.

**Warmaster Tibs** · June 16, 2009, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jean=A=Luc

Even in vanilla 1.1 the good factions have higher stats/lower unit sizes.

'True but I belive he wants them stronger then they are just fewer numbers. While that works for Dwarves / Elves it dosent work for men. Men where more or less = to orcs

**Muffer Nl** · June 16, 2009, 09:34 AM

No they were still far better outfitted.

**lunch** · June 16, 2009, 09:36 AM

The men had much better equipment and i think they were better trained than the orcs to.

**Warmaster Tibs** · June 16, 2009, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by muffer

No they were still far better outfitted.

Originally Posted by lunch

The men had much better equipment and i think they were better trained than the orcs to.

Yes but not to the extent the Dwarves or Elves where at.

**Zikko** · June 16, 2009, 10:47 AM

Btw Lunc, have you noticed the typo on your sig?

**P|A|ntZ** · June 16, 2009, 12:37 PM

When Isildur and his guards were ambushed at Gladden Fields (and lost the Ring) he only had 200 men against a number that far exceeded that. They managed to kill of many orcs and hold them off for a long time due to superior tactics and armour. Men are generally much better organized, trained and equipped than orcs. Uruks are supposed to be exceptional.

**Smaug** · June 16, 2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by P|A|ntZ

When Isildur and his guards were ambushed at Gladden Fields (and lost the Ring) he only had 200 men against a number that far exceeded that. They managed to kill of many orcs and hold them off for a long time due to superior tactics and armour. Men are generally much better organized, trained and equipped than orcs. Uruks are supposed to be exceptional.

This kind of feeling of epicness in the battles is exactly what I'm looking for in this suggestion. Basically the swarming orc 'hordes' should be seen in the campaign map as well as in the battle map. However, now it is not so. You can only see 4 times the number of full stacks but when you enter the battle map, your forces are almost equal in numbers. The only way for the numbers to show in the battle map is when the orcs get reinforcements, which does not have the same feeling and doesn't even occure that much.

**paganmetal3r** · June 17, 2009, 05:09 PM

You can change it in EDU file. I changed dwarves so there are for example 20 dragonslayers in one unit (huge)

**A1_Unit** · June 17, 2009, 06:14 PM

I think the unit sizes are okay the way they are right now.

**Warmaster Tibs** · June 17, 2009, 10:31 PM

I do find that the gap of numbers between good and evil factions change dramaticly from the numbers setting. On small the difference is like 30, on huge it is 100. It seems must people play on huge so I guess its not a huge problem but IDK.

**Temudschin** · June 17, 2009, 10:46 PM

Unit sizes are okay. In my Dwarven campaign i am always outnumbered 1:3 vs OotMM. Unit size huge.

**wupwup** · June 18, 2009, 02:52 AM

i think this woulld mess up autoresolve too much.

**Meneldil** · June 17, 2009, 06:02 PM

Most human factions field half the number of Mordor and OotMM, at best.

With the biggest unit sizes, playing as Gondor, my full stacks are composed of 1500/2000 units, while Mordor full stacks often ranges in the 3700/4200, if I recall correctly (I switched to Rohan a while ago, which makes it even worse, since I field mostly cavalry)