New idea: Special Events of the Lore

[luraz]

I was just wondering if it is possible to put more events in the game for a better atmosphere of the Lore:
- Like special events of great battles that have occured at a certain point.
- Great places/cities that felt at a certain time.
- Maybe some new events about the ring.
- Event about the elves going back to their homeland.
- Event about Saruman that betrayed the good and become evil.
- Event about Rohirrim starts to unite(like in the movie)
- Events about the meeting in Rivendale.
- Events about certain characters like(aragorn/gandalf/witchking/Sauron etc.)

These are just some ideas and I am sure there are ppl here, that have a much bigger knowledge then me about the exact Lore of the third age.

Goal
Like I said in my first words-> Its all about improving the atmosphere in the game. Example in SS 6.1 you had the first crusade or the special council that created the first crusade. When this kind of events occur during a campaign,players will feel really into the game and his fantastic story. The same is possible with TATW.
This game is great and the TATW team have to be proud at them selves. I see submods every day and thats cool, because it lets you choose wich extra's you want to put into your TATW game, but still I havent see any mod that put special events in the game.

Btw. This events don't have to be special movies. It could also be a event with a picture and a nice story behind it

And I am not a moderator so I can't do this kind of things. This is just a idea from me and maybe a moderator will find it cool enough and put it into his mod or create a new one.
Anyways keep up the good work moderators!

[Seleukos_I.]

great idea. I've already missed something like that +rep

[Radboud]

There might be new events in the second release, I would wait for that.

[Aikanár]

Events have to be made definitely!
Their impact on increasing atmosphere is incredible!
But I agree with Radboud in waiting for further releases

[Radboud]

The ideas were good though.

[Louis Lux]

Moderator? ->moderate - To preside over
I think you mean modder, someone that does modifications/customizations.

This type of things will come with time and new releases, I believe.
Once the game starts it doesn't follow the chronology of the books, so you would have to think carefully about the triggers for those events. It would certainly be an interesting addition.

[Skeleton Of The West]

I like this idea . I miss LOTR events in this mod, but as others have said before, they might be added in future releases.

[luraz]

Moderators/ Modders/game creators, use the name u prefer

Yeah, I know its a open battle in TATW and anything could happen. Still, I am sure there is a possibilty to add certain events. The most mods are all according to the Lore, so putting events in the game itself would improve it a lot.

And I know there is gonna be a lot of updates in the future and the TATW have great ideas. I am sure of that. The only thing I do is putting up an idea that could be usefull for the TATW team I also have another idea, but ill post that in another thread We got a superb game, but I think we all can help improve it even more. Not by modderate, but by ideas

[Mithrandir]

Moderators/ Modders/game creators, use the name u prefer

Well, moderators are far from the same as modders. It would be wise to avoid confusing them.

[Renown]

I'm not so sure these would be all that accurate etc..

Events are by necessity enacted by TIME or Time passed. That makes no sense given that when you are in control things change..

What I would like to see instead of new events are new movies that could be triggered by more conditions then "you've reached a certain tile"

Not too hard really (well the scripting side of that.)

[Archaon]

- Like special events of great battles that have occured at a certain point. you would first need that battle to take place or the event is non-existant
- Great places/cities that felt at a certain time. areas have events, cities would not be any harder, go for it!
- Maybe some new events about the ring. do you mean to implement the mission? if not there would not be a point to it..
- Event about the elves going back to their homeland.do you understand why this happened? if you do, then you would know that would mean to end of all elf factions in game..
- Event about Saruman that betrayed the good and become evil.not that he commands orcs, goblin, uruks, ect from turn one tells you much..
- Event about Rohirrim starts to unite(like in the movie) this would be the first one that you mention i actually like! it would have to have an impact t gameplay, maybe a scripted mission or something. but definatelty worth discussing further!
- Events about the meeting in Rivendale. tied to the one ring mission, so both would be as irrelevant as the other unless the one ring mission is implemented to the game.
- Events about certain characters like(aragorn/gandalf/witchking/Sauron etc.) in which way do you mean?

[Skeleton Of The West]

- Event about Saruman that betrayed the good and become evil.not that he commands orcs, goblin, uruks, ect from turn one tells you much..

In the time the campaign starts I dont think the good factions knew that Saruman joined the evil side. They knew that only when he started attacking Rohan, no? Maybe this event can occur when Saruman gets into a war with one of the good factions.

[Archaon]

In the time the campaign starts I dont think the good factions knew that Saruman joined the evil side. They knew that only when he started attacking Rohan, no? Maybe this event can occur when Saruman gets into a war with one of the good factions.

There is another thread that talks about making Isengard more 'lore' accurate but it is not this thread

Basically this event would not fit to the way vanilla TATW is un-modified.

[Radboud]

In the time the campaign starts I dont think the good factions knew that Saruman joined the evil side. They knew that only when he started attacking Rohan, no? Maybe this event can occur when Saruman gets into a war with one of the good factions.

Mithrandir had a good idea about this subject before the first release of the mod.

[luraz]

- Like special events of great battles that have occured at a certain point. you would first need that battle to take place or the event is non-existant

Well,is that a problem? When a battle occurs,this event starts. If the battle never occured,the event never started. Just like that.

- Great places/cities that felt at a certain time. areas have events, cities would not be any harder, go for it! Well,this would be cool, but I am not a modder and can't do this The only thing I mentioned here,are ideas. Ideas for the real modders. And I think this is also possible, just like in Stainless Steel 6.1. Every time a capital felt of a faction,there was a event. This kind of event could also be made if Edoras/Minas Tirith falls or maybe a elven faction.


- Maybe some new events about the ring. do you mean to implement the mission? if not there would not be a point to it..
I don't plan to implement anything,just give some ideas Maybe this event wasnt that good as the ring is somewhere in the game.

- Event about the elves going back to their homeland.do you understand why this happened? if you do, then you would know that would mean to end of all elf factions in game..I don't think this would mean the end of all elf factions. I mean, they started to travel, but they did not travel ALL right away. The elfes were still fighting during that age, even if they started to go back to their homeland. So just make a event in the game, that this is occuring for the atmosphere of the game. Not to eliminate all elf factions.

- Event about Saruman that betrayed the good and become evil.not that he commands orcs, goblin, uruks, ect from turn one tells you much..Someone already mentioned this. This could be done when Isengard betrays the good forces and declares war at Rohan. With a event this would improve the athmosphere as everybody in middleearth suddenly realized, that Saruman has betrayed them.

- Event about Rohirrim starts to unite(like in the movie) this would be the first one that you mention i actually like! it would have to have an impact t gameplay, maybe a scripted mission or something. but definatelty worth discussing further!I am glad you like this 1

- Events about the meeting in Rivendale. tied to the one ring mission, so both would be as irrelevant as the other unless the one ring mission is implemented to the game.True

- Events about certain characters like(aragorn/gandalf/witchking/Sauron etc.) in which way do you mean?

Well,ill try to give some examples-> Sauron: You can make a event that Sauron feels the power of the ring and send all his nazguls to find the ring.
Gandalf:gandalf becomes gandalf the white.

There must be some cool events. I am sure of that. I checked the movie,I read a lot on the internet of the Lore, but I never read the books of the LORE. Thats why I don't know everything and I already said I am sure there are ppl here that know more of me about the Lore and could add some cool events. Better then mine

So come on ppl!Use your brain

ps. I answered your answers in your quote.

[Renown]

Adding LORE events that occur after game start = strange. Cause um, aren't you trying to prevent the SAME THING from happening?

Event's need to be objective driven, and not occur just when the clock strikes twelve.

[luraz]

Adding LORE events that occur after game start = strange. Cause um, aren't you trying to prevent the SAME THING from happening?

Event's need to be objective driven, and not occur just when the clock strikes twelve.

Some things are just happening. Also in game like: Saruman starts attacking Rohan, Rohan starts to unite, Nazguls are searching for the ring,etc. These are events that already occur in TATW. These things occur, but there are no events for it.

And even if its TATW. That does not mean, EVERYTHING could happen. I think there still should be some stories in it, that can't change the current battles in TATW, but just for the atmosphere. I think most ppl want to play in a TATW, where they see a lot of events from the books/movies(that are possible, because a lot of events are not possible during the open Total war) to be really in the game. Even if u are totally into open war,some events you just cant deny.

[Renown]

Some things are just happening. Also in game like: Saruman starts attacking Rohan, Rohan starts to unite, Nazguls are searching for the ring,etc. These are events that already occur in TATW. These things occur, but there are no events for it.

And even if its TATW. That does not mean, EVERYTHING could happen. I think there still should be some stories in it, that can't change the current battles in TATW, but just for the atmosphere. I think most ppl want to play in a TATW, where they see a lot of events from the books/movies(that are possible, because a lot of events are not possible during the open Total war) to be really in the game. Even if u are totally into open war,some events you just cant deny.

Dude you just dont get it.

OBJECTIVE DRIVEN AS COMPARED TO WHEN A TURN REACHES A GIVEN POINT....

I don't want it to strike 3019 in a game, and suddenly 'boom boom boom' "Nazgul go searching for the ring in the shire"

Strange.... the ring is carried by an orc general near erebor!! Oh noes.

Or, year 3020 "Saruman has attacked Rohan, and the King of Rohan realizes he's been betrayed by Isengard!"

Funny, Saruman just conquered Eriador.... I never would have guessed he was evil or could betray Rohan.

Or... need I go on?

What you bloody well need, if you'd read my posts instead of dismissing them and arguing... are conditions.


Heres an example - you want an event that shows Saruman has betrayed the forces of good?

Have it run as soon as Isengard conquers ANY PROVINCES

Monitor Condition FactionTurnStart FactionType France
and I_NumberofSettlements France >1

blah blah blah... with conditions etc so it doesn't reoccur. Have it pop up an event where it explain's Saruman has aligned himself with the forces of evil.

if I saw a single condition monitor that used purely a "turn = X" I swear it would be the most futile and pointless add on or mod.

Events MAY occur as they did in the book, but don't assume they will in one game, or ANY number of them.

Thats why you need conditions that are based on actions, settlement triggers, character triggers, diplomacy.. etc etc etc etc etc to make this work.

And make the events plausible - lore-appropriate, but not word for word occurances for what happened in the WOTR. You'd need to make them slightly more generic as to be applicable for the game.

Understand what I mean now?

[luraz]

Dude you just dont get it.

OBJECTIVE DRIVEN AS COMPARED TO WHEN A TURN REACHES A GIVEN POINT....

I don't want it to strike 3019 in a game, and suddenly 'boom boom boom' "Nazgul go searching for the ring in the shire"

Strange.... the ring is carried by an orc general near erebor!! Oh noes.

Or, year 3020 "Saruman has attacked Rohan, and the King of Rohan realizes he's been betrayed by Isengard!"

Funny, Saruman just conquered Eriador.... I never would have guessed he was evil or could betray Rohan.

Or... need I go on?

What you bloody well need, if you'd read my posts instead of dismissing them and arguing... are conditions.


Heres an example - you want an event that shows Saruman has betrayed the forces of good?

Have it run as soon as Isengard conquers ANY PROVINCES

Monitor Condition FactionTurnStart FactionType France
and I_NumberofSettlements France >1

blah blah blah... with conditions etc so it doesn't reoccur. Have it pop up an event where it explain's Saruman has aligned himself with the forces of evil.

if I saw a single condition monitor that used purely a "turn = X" I swear it would be the most futile and pointless add on or mod.

Events MAY occur as they did in the book, but don't assume they will in one game, or ANY number of them.

Thats why you need conditions that are based on actions, settlement triggers, character triggers, diplomacy.. etc etc etc etc etc to make this work.

And make the events plausible - lore-appropriate, but not word for word occurances for what happened in the WOTR. You'd need to make them slightly more generic as to be applicable for the game.

Understand what I mean now?

@ Renown
Mate, I think YOU are the one that does not understand anything. The problem with you is, you think you know everything and don't listen to other people ideas. That is a big fail as a modder mate.

EVENTS
- I asked at a normal way. Is it possible to show a event, when Isengard declares war at Rohan? Is it possible when u conquer a province the event will occur? If it is possible,WHY NOT?

- Nazguls starts searching for the ring in turn 50-60(war of the ring) Why would you not make this kind of an event, that occurs in turn 50-60( or another turn) that nazguls are searching for the ring? They don't have to search for it AS LONG as there is a story in the game,its good.

- Rohan, starts uniting. How to do it? I don't exactly know, but it could be after Isengard declares war at Rohan or some other way. I am sure KK and his team know a way how to implement it.

There are much more events that could be implemented and some just cant,because of the total war. I am sure the TATW team and the leader KK are smart enough to find a way how to implement some kind of events. I trust them.

GOAL
The goal of the events is improve the atmosphere. The reason why this is so imortant is, because it will improve your feeling in the game. I will give an example: If u make TATW without any stories in it, the game will be exactly the same as every other total war game. You know why? Because face it or not, its still about 2 armies killing eachother on the battlefield. 1=good and 1=evil. If there is no story behind this battles, the game will become boring,fast enough. Trust me.
SO, that is the reason why putting a story in the game is very important, because it improves the atmosphere of the TRUE war. It gives you the feeling of ", this happaned" or "That happaned" or "YES, they reunited", bla bla.
A game is nothing without a story!
TATW has a story, but I think the atmosphere could be improved by adding some events. I think we all love the movies/books and love the story of middle earth. I am also sure we all want to be in a great battle for middle earth atmosphere.

Am I modding?
NO,I am no modder like I said before, but that does not matter. We all play this wonderfull mod and thats why we give ideas. We give ideas for the real modders, that know how to implement some ideas. Thats why I made this thread for KK and TATW team, but also for other modders that are interested.

If something is not possible, say so in the thread and why. I can life with things that are just unrealistic and are not possible to implement. Our goal at the end is to IMPROVE this wonderfull mod even more, because I am sure KK and the TATW team are able to improve it even more.

@Renown
Before you start judging me mate and started talking to me like im kind of .... start thinking about yourself. If u as modder are not able to do something, that does not mean nobody can do it.

Secondly, NEVER think, you are the master of all and everything, but start listening to other ppl. If u don't agree with an idea, say so in the thread(with your arguments) And other ppl will do the same. The problem with u is, that u think you know everything, REALLY evertyhing and the rest of the total war community is dumb. Thats a big fail as modder mate, because at the end we all have the same goal in TATW. Play it, enjoy it, love it, improve it and play it even more!

Peace out

[Renown]

I really shouldn't respond to such a post... but

EVENTS
- I asked at a normal way. Is it possible to show a event, when Isengard declares war at Rohan? Is it possible when u conquer a province the event will occur? If it is possible,WHY NOT?

Let me quote what I said in my previous post.

What you bloody well need, if you'd read my posts instead of dismissing them and arguing... are conditions.


Heres an example - you want an event that shows Saruman has betrayed the forces of good?

Have it run as soon as Isengard conquers ANY PROVINCES

Monitor Condition FactionTurnStart FactionType France
and I_NumberofSettlements France >1

blah blah blah... with conditions etc so it doesn't reoccur. Have it pop up an event where it explain's Saruman has aligned himself with the forces of evil.

You have two choices. Frame the game around a predefined story, Or, set up any number of events to allow for a unique 'story' as you call it to develop.

If you take the first choice, you will have events that are odd, strange or out of place. Like Nazgul searching for the ring, even though it could be in the hands of an ally. Or Rohan uniting suddenly when Isengard attacks even though they've been at war with Mordor since the game start.

If you take the second, your events will be timingly as they report on issues in the game and may give you clues to enemy troop movements (if you dont toggle_fow cheat like I do all the time FOR EDITING purposes I swear)

Another example would be for Rohan now..

A diplomacy check to see if Rohan has declared war or declared upon - from any evil faction. Then run a series of scripts "Rohirrim are being called to service" THEN you could also even boost the build pool units available.

When you script in events you need to make them work for every purpose.

I've never said your idea wouldn't work. I never attacked you...

I've been saying you need to use more complicated conditions then "numbers of turns passed".....