My journey down the rabbit hole - A meditation blog

[Denny Crane!]

An appropriate title given its a wonderful hypnotic bit of writing.

(if this topic spawns any serious debates I'd appreciate it if it could be kept to side threads, but I'd love it if anyone wants to post any commentary of their own about meditative or hypnotic trance experiences)


Since joining the forum and somewhat before I've been a huge fan of buddhism. People have from time to time accused me of not ''getting'' it for various reasons, I'm a logic loving atheist etc. But fundamentally none of that stuff really matters as it is the practice not the dogma which is what makes buddhism. That is the part I haven't really ''got'' ever up until recently I made a resolution to start.

Anyone who knows me (and a few on total war center know me and a few have met me) know I've a fairly troubled personality (this blog will be very personal), I've suffered from huge anxiety, stress and confidence problems. Only recently have I started trying to do something about it in any serious fashion. NLP has certainly been an interesting read and will form some part of my journey but operates on the same principles as CBT and really requires some external therapy. Meditation is a path that can be followed alone and I intend to do so now. They say that depression and other problems in your life can be managed when you have struggles, but when you get everything you want you'd better watch out. Because only when you get what you want do you realise your still not happy. Happiness if it comes from anywhere has to come from within first then you can truly take pleasure in external influences. Recently after a few rough years my economic situation looks terrible now but potentially brilliant - I've met the girl of my dreams and I'm mastering my physical shape quite impressively. The 3 main areas of my life outside of my head are coming together and that makes me nervous, its now that if I don't resolve my mental problems they'll bite me in my ass and ruin my potentially wonderful life. IF that doesn't motivate you nothing will I figure.

Through various conversations, reading and thoughts I've had on the subject I see the personality as being a relatively blank canvas that is healthy whole and happy. Over the years big and little things pile on top of you and layer down to form some positive and some negative associations through which all of your experiences are filtered. You can change these associations and the patterns they form by creating new ones with self hypnosis and cognitive behavioural therapy, you can manage the symptoms using methods in NLP and others like the swish pattern or you can use meditation and slowly submerge your mind back into its blank state and allow it to filter through these negative experiences.

I don't imagine and the evidence suggests that meditation is an easy process. Both in guided meditation and using aides like holosyncs binaural beats people report getting hit every so often by extreme emotions, anxiety and depression as the deeper you go the more repressed things come to the surface and working through them isn't really all that pleasant but better than living with them if you are strong enough. I've also come across the idea that normal meditation is a lot more profound than the meditative states and results produced by using the aides like binaural beats.

If you don't know what binaural beats are look into it, its interesting.

So I came to a decision to really fling myself into it head first. I'll be following a plan of using guided meditation programs (freely available through Itunes and other websites) on my lunch breaks as and when I get them hopefully once a day but when I can.

I already listen to Paul Mckennas guided hypnosis, I often find a mantra running through my head when I'm stressed of its own will - this is an invitation to breath deeply and relax. That really works.

And Holosync. And I thought I'd blog my experiences here for you all to read. If anyone is interested in joining me then feel free to write down your own thoughts as you attempt the journey. Its pretty difficult to find 30minutes to 2 hours every day but its worth it I know/think/hope.


I started last week with a guided meditation by Roy Masters called ''be still and know'' and haven't got back to it until tonight.

I can barely remember it, I started off mindful then drifted into a semi sleep daydream state. I feel relaxed and more peaceful. Many fears and anxieties came to the surface I think. Most of my day dreams seemed focused around areas of worries. The voice of Roy Masters faded into the background and only flowed in near the end. Awareness of the hand worked but trying to look through the forehead was confusing.
I am very positive about this. It seemed that 30 min lasted 8 hours though I can't remember it

Today I tried the first 30 minutes of holosync called ''the dive'' (june 11th)

My head felt full from the tone of the binaural beat, a peculiar singular sensation akin to having a head cold. I felt no drifting into a deep state or any other such amazing feelings mentioned in the overly aggressive advertising used for this product nothing amazingly peaceful at all. I know I'm not the first, I was hit by an overwhelming feeling of anxiety that manifested as a very tight feeling in the chest. The anxiety resulted in ceaseless self chatter which ironically got me thinking about this post. I suspect the self chatter was to quieten down the anxiety and that will prove to be interesting, we'll see if that changes in the next month or remains a constant feature for now. I found myself constantly checking to see how long I'd been doing it and endlessly restless. Again seemed like a very long time doing it. A completely different exercise to be still and know'' I think I probably did not hit any deep states due to whatever it was that kept me anxious.

[AdamWeishaupt]

It's not exactely a regular form of meditation but with some good will it can be compared. In the early days when I had joined university that was after armed services, I read books in my room at 05.30 in the morning. One book I remember was about philosophical rhetorics by an author whose lectures I tried to follow at that time. The two volume work was so complicated written, filled up with greek, latin and french quotes that I could even with some efforts hardly understand what he was out for. To get through it (well I have never read both volumes to an end) and not to forget every sentence when starting the next one, I read it to myself aloud. I remember also having read essays from Lévinas at that time in such a manner. After that time I think I have stopped to read books with noisy voices at 05.30 in my room. And over time I became that kind of reader who needs around himself half a liberary to read a book. It's quite the opposite of an experience of reading as "chanting". And recently, I have been told by friends, that when I was speaking, it happened in a rather slow and calm dictum. Reading can come close to meditation, writing and talking, too, sometimes.

[Ummon]

Yes, really, everything can be meditation. On the other hand, specific forms promote the discipline required to achieve certain results. All in all, I think this thread will be interesting, as Seneca tells us his experience.

[AdamWeishaupt]

If you consider that the writing person exposes him- or herself in that process, I hope of course, he or she knows to protect the self enough.

[Ummon]

I would not make a similar thread, if that is what you mean. It is though possible to describe processes and not content.

[Chaigidel]

I both encourage and discourage this kind of very involved self analysis--- when you place yourself into these states of perception, you take great risks with your mind, and some would say your very soul, certainly following a perscribed dogma is the most beneficial path; I would never do this without the context of some sort of reliable "guide" which is suitable to you.

but seneca I do think you will find yourself before the Gate of Morning, much sooner than you think--- and you will be better for it.

[Denny Crane!]

I appreciate the concerns about my sensitivity and the dangers of revealing to much but I'm self aware enough to post nothing but self evident truths that won't effect me. I do understand the dangers of the process though thanks chaig. But despite that I'm plunging into it. Nothing to report today since I've barely just finished work, I'll only blog it when I have something to blog.

Though I have to admit the only gate of morning I know is the golden gate bridge lol.

[Hippolord]

I apologize, i think im going to be the guy everyone yells at in this thread... i doslike meditation very much.

Yes i know that sounds odd. "How can you hate meditation? Thats like saying you hate breathing! It's just something natural. Everyone meditates." But what i dislike is what the majority, of kinds of meditation imply. They usually (Most of them not all) imply some sort of physical in-action.

I belive although, there can be benefits from mental action, and therefore orgnizing your problems (or un-organizing them). Thats something thats logical, of course it would help. But problems, even the philosophival ones, are not to be solved threw anything but action.

Threw meditation you fall back unto yourself, and there by begin a self-relationship. And i know that there Meditation groups, but in the end it is a very self-help sort of aid. Buddha says: "Lack of meditation leads to ignorance".

But i guess what imtrying to preach, is that a state of ignorance, and chaos is far better, than a state of non-ignorance (Wisdom? I think not), and order. For only under such conditions, can the human soul thrive. We sit around in society, and day to day we are bound by laws and so called morals, to a life that is not befitting the human. I think Meditation, is the way of society, the way of in-action, of pacifism.

In order to trully be free, of issues, and morals, and the philosophies that so confound us, is to be gone from them, to be ignorant of there exsistance. There is such a downplay of being ignorant in a society of those whom seek to be "Wise". But i promote ignorance, ignorance as they say is bliss.

Therefore i say in the end: Do not meditate, but instead get up and take action, if there are those whom disturbe you, and slow you down...Be rid of them. If your mind, begins to counfound you, and turn you against such actions...Be rid of such thoughts. Be free, be your primal self, be selfish, be self-centered, for is there any other way of perceiveing the universe, except for a self-centered way? Meditation is the attempt to look upon and precive the universe from a different perspective, in order to gain another opinon upon it, but this is but a dream... and is immpossible.

Meditation, is reaching for, what you shall never achieve...

P.S. I love meditation, im just trying to improve my debating skills, threw playing a Devil's Advocate. Advice please?

[Denny Crane!]

I apologize, i think im going to be the guy everyone yells at in this thread... i doslike meditation very much.

Yes i know that sounds odd. "How can you hate meditation? Thats like saying you hate breathing! It's just something natural. Everyone meditates." But what i dislike is what the majority, of kinds of meditation imply. They usually (Most of them not all) imply some sort of physical in-action.

Actually I don't know of any that do imply that but I'd be interested in those that do. All of them have a focus just sometimes it is more abstract and the more abstract the more it is aimed at unearthing the more abstract and repressed emotions and memories.

I belive although, there can be benefits from mental action, and therefore orgnizing your problems (or un-organizing them). Thats something thats logical, of course it would help. But problems, even the philosophival ones, are not to be solved threw anything but action.

The point is that meditation is action, not doing anything is inaction. Living life the way you've always lived it (in pain or suffering) is inaction. To be overly zen sometimes doing is not doing and sometimes not doing is doing.

Threw meditation you fall back unto yourself, and there by begin a self-relationship. And i know that there Meditation groups, but in the end it is a very self-help sort of aid. Buddha says: "Lack of meditation leads to ignorance".

All therapy is self help, either way it is digging into your associations and building fresh ones, the only difference is whether you do it with passive or active guidance.

But i guess what imtrying to preach, is that a state of ignorance, and chaos is far better, than a state of non-ignorance (Wisdom? I think not), and order. For only under such conditions, can the human soul thrive. We sit around in society, and day to day we are bound by laws and so called morals, to a life that is not befitting the human. I think Meditation, is the way of society, the way of in-action, of pacifism.

errr...sorry none of that made any sense to me..

In order to trully be free, of issues, and morals, and the philosophies that so confound us, is to be gone from them, to be ignorant of there exsistance. There is such a downplay of being ignorant in a society of those whom seek to be "Wise". But i promote ignorance, ignorance as they say is bliss.

Therefore i say in the end: Do not meditate, but instead get up and take action, if there are those whom disturbe you, and slow you down...Be rid of them. If your mind, begins to counfound you, and turn you against such actions...Be rid of such thoughts. Be free, be your primal self, be selfish, be self-centered, for is there any other way of perceiveing the universe, except for a self-centered way? Meditation is the attempt to look upon and precive the universe from a different perspective, in order to gain another opinon upon it, but this is but a dream... and is immpossible.

Meditation, is reaching for, what you shall never achieve...

P.S. I love meditation, im just trying to improve my debating skills, threw playing a Devil's Advocate. Advice please?

You think platitudes can help those in pain or suffering... just telling people to get up and do! Well I guess this thread was bound to attract some bollocks responses I'm just glad your playing devils advocate

On a serious note there are approaches to mental health which are varied and wide and no exact science but certainly any methodology is better than no methodology espoused by those who would believe in the ''school of hard knocks'' and ''common sense'' they are usually the most damaged people and ignorant of it to boot. The more I learn about sales techniques the more I understand the areas in which I am deficient. The same it is for mental health, the more I look into it the more I see where I could improve. Those who think there is no improvement or either really lucky or really ignorant. The really lucky usually have very little to offer those who don't feel ok beyond meaningless vacuous attitudes. The really ignorant usually don't even want to talk about the subject.

[Hippolord]

You think platitudes can help those in pain or suffering... just telling people to get up and do! Well I guess this thread was bound to attract some bollocks responses I'm just glad your playing devils advocate

Well, +rep for just being able to take that in good humor. As after reading it over, that was a rather pathetic attempt at trying to debate, the negatory.

In all seriousness, i think meditation in okay, but that there are much better ways of finding inner peace...

[Chaigidel]

I think the best form and most awakening meditation is placing oneself as a servant to the dying; or in the face of death.

I have had all my best ideas when I was about to die.

[Denny Crane!]

I think the best form and most awakening meditation is placing oneself as a servant to the dying; or in the face of death.

I have had all my best ideas when I was about to die.

samurai style?

[Ummon]

Meditation has two flavours: one is used to increase the ability to concentrate, the other to extend our understanding of the inner mind and its processes. They cooperate in changing personality.

I have a mixed feeling for Buddhism. Some late researches and reasonings lead me to think Buddhism is wrong, ultimately, when it asserts certain things about the mind. It is a series of mistakes really irrelevant though, if compared with the wealth of information and wisdom it provides us with.

My advice, is to focus on concentration exercises, such as unity with the object and those practices providing security, given the outlook you give about yourself. If you reach a sufficient level of concentration, positive feeling and stability, then you will pass to the other aspects, those about the knowledge of the apparent nature of the self.

Perhaps it is also a good idea not to practice alone.

[Denny Crane!]

Meditation has two flavours: one is used to increase the ability to concentrate, the other to extend our understanding of the inner mind and its processes. They cooperate in changing personality.

I have a mixed feeling for Buddhism. Some late researches and reasonings lead me to think Buddhism is wrong, ultimately, when it asserts certain things about the mind. It is a series of mistakes really irrelevant though, if compared with the wealth of information and wisdom it provides us with.

My advice, is to focus on concentration exercises, such as unity with the object and those practices providing security, given the outlook you give about yourself. If you reach a sufficient level of concentration, positive feeling and stability, then you will pass to the other aspects, those about the knowledge of the apparent nature of the self.

Perhaps it is also a good idea not to practice alone.

That is something I've always thought actually. As you know I'm an atheist and don't subscribe to the dichotomy between monism and dualism (I don't even think they're asking the right question) so I'd have problems with certain aspects of buddhism but as you say problems with the details aren't always important.

The holosync material is quite useful as is the mindfulness techniques because they are designed to immerse you very very slowly and get rid of anxiety or repressed memories only at the surface level initially and it takes a long time to progress deeper so you aren't risking going to far to soon as I've read many cases of those who have and it hasn't been pleasant.

[Denny Crane!]

Holosync attempt number two.

I ended up missing a day which is probably no bad thing though I am sticking firmly to a routine of always doing it at the same time. Feelings of residual anxiety and restlessness were present, constant distractions physical itchiness and fidgeting at first, lost control of breathing and uncontrollable daydreaming about work, girlfriend and friends in various situations. Oddest thing, felt unbelievably dizzy, I've read that ''the dive'' which is your only experience with binaural beats for a long time using this program gradually takes your brain through 3 different states over 30 minutes and dizziness is not unusual but I nearly fell out the chair at one point

Going to fall asleep to some Paul mckenna positivity since I'm deeply relaxed. I've found myself with the suggestion implanted everytime I'm stressed that this is an invitation to relax.

I'm probably going to take this blog private for now but I'll repost it if I feel comfortable in a few months.

[Hippolord]

Buddhism is for hippies.

I find myself loving that statement.... for all the wrong reasons.