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  1. #1
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aaaBdVMkjPnU
    June 8 (Bloomberg) -- I’ve finally figured out the Obama economic strategy. President Barack Obama and his team have been having so much fun wielding dictatorial power while rescuing “failed” firms, that they have developed a scheme to gain the same power over every business. The plan is to enact policies that are so anticompetitive that every firm needs a bailout.

    Once that happens, their new pay czar Kenneth Feinberg can set the wage for everybody and Rahm Emanuel can stack the boards of all of our companies with his political cronies.

    I know, it sounds like an exaggeration. But look at it this way. If there were a power ranking of U.S. companies, like the ones compiled by football writers for National Football League teams, Microsoft would surely be first or second to Google. But last week, Microsoft Chief Executive Officer Steve Ballmer came to Washington to announce what Microsoft would do if Obama’s multinational tax policy is enacted.

    “It makes U.S. jobs more expensive,” Ballmer said, “We’re better off taking lots of people and moving them out of the U.S.” If Microsoft, perhaps our most competitive company, has to abandon the U.S. in order to continue to thrive, who exactly is going to stay?

    At issue is Obama’s policy to end the deferral of multinational taxation.

    The U.S. now has about the highest combined corporate tax rate, second only to Japan among industrialized countries. That rate is so high that U.S. firms have an enormous disadvantage versus competitors. The average corporate tax rate for the major developed countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development in 2008 was about 27 percent, more than 10 percentage points lower than the U.S. rate.

    Tax Burden

    U.S. firms have nonetheless prospered because our tax code allows a business to set up a subsidiary in a low-tax country. When that subsidiary earns profits, they are taxed at the rate of that country, and don’t face U.S. tax until the money is mailed home.

    The economically illiterate partisan Democratic view is that this practice is unpatriotic and bleeds jobs from the U.S. The economic reality is that American companies use this approach to acquire market share overseas. The alternative is losing the business to foreign competitors.

    Don’t just take my word for it. A recent paper by Harvard economists Mihir Desai and C. Fritz Foley and Berkeley economist James Hines and published in the distinguished American Economic Review, gathered data on American multinationals to explore the impact of foreign investments on domestic U.S. activity.

    Encourage Overseas Sales

    Their conclusion was striking. The authors found that “10 percent greater foreign capital investment is associated with 2.2 percent greater domestic investment, and that 10 percent greater foreign employee compensation is associated with 4 percent greater domestic employee compensation. Changes in foreign and domestic sales, assets, and numbers of employees are likewise positively associated; the evidence also indicates that greater foreign investment is associated with additional domestic exports and R&D spending.”

    So when firms expand their operations abroad, taking advantage of the lower foreign tax rates, it helps their workers in the U.S. Higher sales abroad (surprise, surprise) are good for domestic workers.

    It is worth noting that this study, which is confirmed by a boatload of evidence elsewhere, was coauthored by the same James Hines who recently wrote a sweeping review of international tax policy with Obama’s top economist, Larry Summers. Summers has to know what the literature says.

    Inexplicable Stance

    So the question is, why does Obama advocate a policy that so flies in the face of everything that economists have learned? How could Obama possibly say, as he did last month, that he wants “to see our companies remain the most competitive in the world. But the way to make sure that happens is not to reward our companies for moving jobs off our shores or transferring profits to overseas tax havens?” Further, how could Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner call a practice that top scholarship has shown increases wages and employment in the U.S. “indefensible?”

    I have to admit I am at a loss. Maybe it is good politics to bash American corporations, and Obama isn’t really serious about making this change happen. But if the change is enacted, and domestic corporate taxes aren’t reduced to offset the big tax hike, the result will be a flight from the U.S. that rivals in scale the greatest avian arctic migrations.

    If that occurs, the firms that stay in the U.S. will be at such a huge tax disadvantage that they will absolutely need a “rescue.”

    (Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He was an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)
    Not literally of course, but the Obama Economic plan, taxation and his new best buddy the Pay Czar makes one lift their eye brows. Assuming of course one has an idea as to how these things work.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    only effects the rich, I really wont be happy until we are eating them, and wearing skins as coats--- all after due process of course.

  3. #3
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Comments like these that make me understand you are anything but rich. And if you think I'm talking from a standpoint that you'd never want to subject yourself to being eaten... think again.
    Last edited by Justinian; June 09, 2009 at 06:41 PM.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    really, governments change, capitalism is a failed system

    why cry so loud as it dies?

    and you are under the mistaken impression that it takes special talent or intelligence to be rich-- that is a myth; its all luck, blind silly luck ( and being a very hard worker if money doesnt fall into your lap, but no you dont have to be smart-- just have a lot of drive, a lot of motivation to possess obtain and horde money.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaigidel View Post
    really, governments change, capitalism is a failed system
    Reality check: It is the ONLY system that actually works.

    why cry so loud as it dies?
    Reality check: NO profitable equivalents to Capitalism exist.

    and you are under the mistaken impression that it takes special talent or intelligence to be rich-- that is a myth; its all luck, blind silly luck ( and being a very hard worker if money doesnt fall into your lap, but no you dont have to be smart-- just have a lot of drive, a lot of motivation to possess obtain and horde money.
    As opposed to "connections" within the "People's" party, where the "Glorious leader" (insert another title of the communist supremo) would allow his "faithful people's representatives" opportunity to rob the "proletariat" any which way they can, and get tons of money in the process.

    I hear Cuba is hiring.
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  6. #6
    ShockBlast's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravnos View Post
    Reality check: NO profitable equivalents to Capitalism exist.
    Tell me one Capitalist economy.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ShockBlast View Post
    Tell me one Capitalist economy.
    China. When it was communist, it could only feed its people. Now, after it has gone Capitalist it can actually provide them with a living. Never mind what the country calls itself. It is one of the greatest capitalistic countries on Earth.

    Why is it that almost everyone has tempered it with socialism then?
    It is called checks and balances. If none are in place, then the system can collapse, much like a building would, if the foundations for it aren't there or aren't strong enough. What you call "socialism", I call "capitalist state trying to provide for its people". It's got NOTHING to do with COMMUNISM (because some people keep mixing the two). Social Democrat would also be a good name for that, socialism which accepts the market/capitalist ideology. Otherwise it is communism, pure and simple. It couldn't be possible without the foundations of a strong market economy. Countries which tried it, aka trying to raise the Per capita income of the people without an actual economy as a backbone, like Greece tried to do in the 1980's (under a socialist government), only raised the external debt. (Greece went from 30% of GNP to nearly 100% in a mere decade.)

    If, instead, that money was spent in infrastructure, investment and creating business opportunities, much like Spain and Portugal did, things would have been much better in Greece than they are right now.

    A strong country can't escape a vibrant strong capitalistic economy. Not it if wants to stay strong.
    Last edited by Keravnos; June 10, 2009 at 11:36 AM.
    Go Minerwars Go! A 6DOF game of space mining and shooting. SAKA Co-FC, Koinon Hellenon FC, Epeiros FC. RS Hellenistic Historian K.I.S.S.




  8. #8
    ShockBlast's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravnos View Post
    China. When it was communist, it could only feed its people. Now, after it has gone Capitalist it can actually provide them with a living. Never mind what the country calls itself. It is one of the greatest capitalistic countries on Earth.
    No country in history of humankind has been capitalist.
    All the countries were mixed economies or centralized economies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravnos View Post
    It is called checks and balances. If none are in place, then the system can collapse, much like a building would, if the foundations for it aren't there or aren't strong enough. What you call "socialism", I call "capitalist state trying to provide for its people". It's got NOTHING to do with COMMUNISM (because some people keep mixing the two). Social Democrat would also be a good name for that, socialism which accepts the market/capitalist ideology. Otherwise it is communism, pure and simple.
    Social democracy doesn't accept capitalism idology not even the right accepts capitailsm as a hole ideology.
    Look kid i know you like capitalism but it's like communism just a theory that will never be brought to life.
    Extreme right - Capitalism - market economy without laws
    Center-right,centre,center-left - market economy with laws or mixed economies (against monopols,minimum salary etc.)
    Extreme left - Communinsm

    P.S. The laws represent the influence of the state in the economy.

    Social Democracy - market economy with a very good legislation and social programs.
    Your country makes 80% of it's GDP form turism.
    Last edited by ShockBlast; June 11, 2009 at 05:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    The US is nationalizing so that they can deny entrepenuers the opportunity to buy up these failed companies and turn them around. Its all about profit. The Fed is buying up the US. Even all the treasury notes.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    good deal

  11. #11

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Last edited by Oswald von Wolkenstein; June 09, 2009 at 06:38 PM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald von Wolkenstein View Post

    wrong!

    the iraq war as of the end of bushes presidency had us in 250 billion $ of debt or something around there.

    Obama buying out all the companies and spending on social programs raised it to 3 trillion.
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  13. #13
    Holger Danske's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald von Wolkenstein View Post
    So true... Outrageous!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    the government is performing like it should, its taking the power out of the hands of this corporate oligarchy

  15. #15

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Let's calm down guys, posts deleted.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    This on the day that the Treasury's ownership stake was bought out of 9 of the top US financial firms, freeing them from government control. I don't see any indication that this administration wants to keep its ownership in the struggling companies that it has propped up.

    I do agree that the corporate tax system in the US needs reform. In my opinion the corporate tax should be eliminated, and a few brackets added to the top of the graduated income tax (right now its capped at $350,000, I would add $1M. and $10M). It is a more effective way at targeting taxes towards the ultra-rich, instead of the corporate tax which effects businesses of all sizes.
    Last edited by Sphere; June 09, 2009 at 06:53 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Obama knows what he is doing. He is God after all.


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    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    This on the day that the Treasury's ownership stake was bought out of 9 of the top US financial firms, freeing them from government control. I don't see any indication that this administration wants to keep its ownership in the struggling companies that it has propped up.
    The fact that they were under government control raises red flags in the first place. Let's not forget the government also "allowed" these companies to actually pay them back. Dangerous territory.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  19. #19
    TW Bigfoot
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    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    so, hows that obama guy working out for you guys?

    has change come to america?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Obama tells American Businesses to drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfootedfred View Post
    so, hows that obama guy working out for you guys?

    has change come to america?
    Yes. The victory that cannot be taken away has already occurred. He's exactly what most of America wanted -- NOT GEORGE BUSH.

    He's achieved that and that was a change, a great change for America and the World.

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