Europe's Centralized Bank

[Justice and Mercy]

I think the advantage of Europe's Central Bank is that it's focus is exactly where the focus of a central bank should be: the stability of the currency.

This is done by keeping the politicians from influencing the bank (which is America's biggest problem concerning the Federal Reserve). For this both Euronuts and Euroskeptics can thank each other. It's because of the Euronuts that the bank even exists, and it's because of the Euroskeptics that it's not controlled by a European political body.

If the Euroskeptics had their way European nations would be in the same monetary-political mess as we Americans, with national banks being used by the politicians to hide debt. Had the Euronuts had their way European nations would be in the same boat, except instead of British or French politicians hiding debt it'd be the European politicians.

However, I believe the Europeans should draft a Constitution to ensure the EU government doesn't start taking more power than it should, including power over the central bank. That's something I would fear as a European during an economic crisis; the government may use the oppurtunity to take control.

So, as much crap as I give you socialist surrender monkeys: Nice monetary system, dudes.

[ShockBlast]

Nope my friend the European Central Bank is independent from any political influence because of the ''Euronuts''.One of the best Central Banks was the Deutsche Bundesbank so the ECB was modeld after it and as you know Germany is part of the ''Euronuts'' category.

P.S. We are socialists,hell even our so called center-right are center-left but we are not surrender monkeys.

[Chlodwig I.]

The ECB is not a private Organization.
Its a Public Body owned by the EURO-Countries.

The Directors of the ECB are elected by the Presidents/Chancelors of the EURO-Countries,
but they and the ECB are independent from any Political influence
and don't have to follow commands of any EU Body,
But they need to follow the rules/targets written down in the EU-Contracts.

European “socialism” has seen better days; with it’s Monetarist policies, the ECB certainly has not even remotely so Socialistic. Regardless, these very same policies are responsible for slowing down European economy in the recent past and deepen the current crisis. The obsession of fighting inflation at all cost is even bring some economies into Deflation, not to speak the very real social costs of it.

There hasn't been a deflation in the EURO-Zone,
The Social gain of fighting inflation is higher then the possible social loss.
because inflation is mainly hitting employees especialy those with low wages.

And the job of the ECB is not that easy like the jobs of other Central banks because the
ECB has to watch the economies of 16 diffrent countries with 16 diffrent inflation rates,
ecomic and social politics, unempoyment rates, and growth rates etc. etc. etc.

So its quite difficult to find the right way and considering all these things the ECB is doing a very good job

[Justice and Mercy]

The Directors of the ECB are elected by the Presidents/Chancelors of the EURO-Countries,
but they and the ECB are independent from any Political influence
and don't have to follow commands of any EU Body,
But they need to follow the rules/targets written down in the EU-Contracts.

Which is precisely the way it should be.

IMO, keeping the value of the currency stable is the moral duty of any central bank.

There are two banking systems I support: one where completely private banks print currency but must have it backed by gold, and one where there's a central bank free from the influence of the politicians so the politicians don't use inflation to hide debt.

Of course they wouldn't have to hide debt if they stopped spending so damned much. Whatever.

[ShockBlast]

Which is precisely the way it should be.

IMO, keeping the value of the currency stable is the moral duty of any central bank.

There are two banking systems I support: one where completely private banks print currency but must have it backed by gold, and one where there's a central bank free from the influence of the politicians so the politicians don't use inflation to hide debt.

Of course they wouldn't have to hide debt if they stopped spending so damned much. Whatever.

Backed by gold?Are you kidding? In 71 it was abolished and today a currency is backed by the economical strength of the economy it represents.

[Justice and Mercy]

Backed by gold?Are you kidding? In 71 it was abolished and today a currency is backed by the economical strength of the economy it represents.

Yes. Backed by gold as a means to keep the private banks from printing money willy-nilly.

Again, this is assuming it's the private banks that print the national currency.

[Chlodwig I.]

Which is precisely the way it should be.

IMO, keeping the value of the currency stable is the moral duty of any central bank.

There are two banking systems I support: one where completely private banks print currency but must have it backed by gold, and one where there's a central bank free from the influence of the politicians so the politicians don't use inflation to hide debt.

Of course they wouldn't have to hide debt if they stopped spending so damned much. Whatever.

The problem with Gold is, that Gold has no fixed value,
Gold value is created by the market.

[Justice and Mercy]

The problem with Gold is, that Gold has no fixed value,
Gold value is created by the market.

There is no viable alternative when it comes to a decentralized banking system.

[Arbogast]

I guess if you believed in the gartbage that is the philips curve then... sure

It is a matter of what “garbage” we choose to believe in. Personally, I choose to believe that the obsession with budget control and inflation of the ECB is indeed responsible for slowing down the economy, regardless of how you want to view the relation between unemployment vs inflation... the social cost of the crisis they contributed to are self evident.

There hasn't been a deflation in the EURO-Zone,

I see. Perhaps you prefer the use of the euphemism of negative inflation then. (how “continued” that would need to be? )

Regardless, you should say that to the Economists who predict a deflation of 0.3% in Portugal this year, or to those who live there and are experiencing a negative inflation in the last months...

The Social gain of fighting inflation is higher then the possible social loss.
because inflation is mainly hitting employees especialy those with low wages.

“The social loss of high unemployment is higher than the cost of inflation.because unemployment is mainly hitting employees especialy those unskilled with low wages.”

We all can make such debatable affirmations here; but remember that the correlation you are making isn’t that simple in real life as it appears on the model, it is just an assumption.

And the job of the ECB is not that easy like the jobs of other Central banks because the
ECB has to watch the economies of 16 diffrent countries with 16 diffrent inflation rates,
ecomic and social politics, unempoyment rates, and growth rates etc. etc. etc.

So its quite difficult to find the right way and considering all these things the ECB is doing a very good job

Your opinion, not mine. Frankly, I would prefer a Central Bank that pays more attention to growth than one that is overly obsessed with fighting inflation at all costs, whatever they may be. A bit of moderation would be fine here.

[Chlodwig I.]

It is a matter of what “garbage” we choose to believe in. Personally, I choose to believe that the obsession with budget control and inflation of the ECB is indeed responsible for slowing down the economy, regardless of how you want to view the relation between unemployment vs inflation... the social cost of the crisis they contributed to are self evident.

which of the 16 economies?
The obsession with putting cheap money into the US Market by the FED created the largest econimc world crisis after WWII

I see. Perhaps you prefer the use of the euphemism of negative inflation then. (how “continued” that would need to be? )

Regardless, you should say that to the Economists who predict a deflation of 0.3% in Portugal this year, or to those who live there and are experiencing a negative inflation in the last months...

Sorry didn't know that predicted price change in Portugal is the measurment for the inflation or deflation rate in the whole EURO Zone

If you take a look at the daily needed products you will experience that there is still in average inflation and not deflation in the EURO Zone.

“The social loss of high unemployment is higher than the cost of inflation.because unemployment is mainly hitting employees especialy those unskilled with low wages.”

We all can make such debatable affirmations here; but remember that the correlation you are making isn’t that simple in real life as it appears on the model, it is just an assumption.

Yes like your asumption that low inflation is reducing economic growth or has a negative effect on employment.

Your opinion, not mine. Frankly, I would prefer a Central Bank that pays more attention to growth than one that is overly obsessed with fighting inflation at all costs, whatever they may be. A bit of moderation would be fine here.

growth in which country?
its not one country its 16 countries,
the ECB can't promote growth in all the EURO-Countries,
where lowering intrest rates could stimulate economic growth in counry A and B it can have no effect in country C, D, E and a negative effect in Country F and G at the same time......so what to do?

Thats why the target of the ECB is to keep the value of the currency stable.
Promoting growth is the objective of the Euro Countries Governments.

[Arbogast]

which of the 16 economies?
The obsession with putting cheap money into the US Market by the FED created the largest econimc world crisis after WWII.

Oh, it was hardly just that, and you know it.

Sorry didn't know that predicted price change in Portugal is the measurment for the inflation or deflation rate in the whole EURO Zone
If you take a look at the daily needed products you will experience that there is still in average inflation and not deflation in the EURO Zone. .

if you need to remember, you were answering:

“... The obsession of fighting inflation at all cost is even bring some economies into Deflation....”

Oh and btw, if you read this:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f432a184-4...nclick_check=1

It seems the risk of a far more generalized deflation is actually possible. We certainly already are experiencing negative inflation within a number of countries... go figure.

Yes like your asumption that low inflation is reducing economic growth or has a negative effect on employment. .

Actually, no. What I am assuming is that ECB policies to keep a low inflation had a negative impact on growth and indirectly in employment. As, implicitly, so seems to have you, btw. Read your own quote next, if you need to.

growth in which country?
its not one country its 16 countries,
the ECB can't promote growth in all the EURO-Countries,
where lowering intrest rates could stimulate economic growth in counry A and B it can have no effect in country C, D, E and a negative effect in Country F and G at the same time......so what to do?

Nope. You would be right only if there would be no indirect impact of economical growth of one european country over another, but there is. If enough are influenced positively, the rest should follow...

[Justice and Mercy]

It is a matter of what “garbage” we choose to believe in. Personally, I choose to believe that the obsession with budget control and inflation of the ECB is indeed responsible for slowing down the economy, regardless of how you want to view the relation between unemployment vs inflation... the social cost of the crisis they contributed to are self evident.

What's responsible for slowing down the economy in Europe is socialism.

Claim that it's necessary, claim that it's a moral duty of society, but there isn't any doubt that socialist policies harm the overall economy.

[ShockBlast]

What's responsible for slowing down the economy in Europe is socialism.

Claim that it's necessary, claim that it's a moral duty of society, but there isn't any doubt that socialist policies harm the overall economy.

You couldn't resist?
No social-democracy is beneficial for Europe.Don't make me call Rome to lecture you.

[Arbogast]

What's responsible for slowing down the economy in Europe is socialism.

Claim that it's necessary, claim that it's a moral duty of society, but there isn't any doubt that socialist policies harm the overall economy.

Yes, “Socialism,” was/is a necessity, but also, yes, the ECB policies deepened the current crisis. A more moderate approach would have been better, but then that was not to be expected, with the ECB run by - how have you put it in relation to the Europhiles? - “Monetarist Nuts.”

[Arbogast]

European “socialism” has seen better days; with it’s Monetarist policies, the ECB certainly has not even remotely so Socialistic. Regardless, these very same policies are responsible for slowing down European economy in the recent past and deepen the current crisis. The obsession of fighting inflation at all cost is even bring some economies into Deflation, not to speak the very real social costs of it.

[JP226]

European “socialism” has seen better days; with it’s Monetarist policies, the ECB certainly has not even remotely so Socialistic. Regardless, these very same policies are responsible for slowing down European economy in the recent past and deepen the current crisis. The obsession of fighting inflation at all cost is even bring some economies into Deflation, not to speak the very real social costs of it.

I guess if you believed in the gartbage that is the philips curve then... sure

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Well, at least ECB isn't as unnecessary and counterproductive interference in the economy as FED.

[Chlodwig I.]

Decentralizing is a no go.

There needs to be a centralized control over the Money,
Finance is too important to leave it in the control of private companies
or to let a government abuse it to buy votes.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

In any case, didn't you people notice the significant drop in the Euro right after the elections? I'd predicted it all along. Just before the European elections, mysteriously, unemployment dropped, the Euro went up, newspapers heralded the end of the crisis.

And on monday, BAM. I wonder what kind of silly keynesian jobs they made up to create the illusion. Building bridges out of cardboard? This is starting to look like the Soviet Union.

Also very inelegant was the eurogloating they did around December-January. "Haw haw, look at me, I'm immune to the crisis. The Euro protects me!"

Likewise, BAM.

It's pityful. And then you meet "four legs good, two legs bad" people who recite the mantra, "the Euro protects us! The Euro protects us!"

And I just can't help remembering Rennfield, in his prison cell eating bugs, and chanting "The Master is coming! The Master is coming!!!"

[JP226]

Like a true American you live up to your name ''Socialism bad bad,Capitalism good good.''I like to inform you that Social Democracy has nothing to do with USSR or all totalitarian wannabe Communist countries that were in Eastern Europe.Germany is strong because the social-democrat view made it a industrial giant again.

And like a true Euro you have no idea what you are talking about. Just a simple question, what is the difference between a monopolistic market and a monopoly?