Platton Firing has stopped working.

[B-DizL]

Im playing as France and i have a full stack that has 4 elite units in it, i used this stack to invade Austria and it was the first time i witnessed my elites actually use platoon firing and i thought it was great so i decided to use the 4 units as the core of my army so as to rank them up faster.

But when i took this same stack to Hanover to wipe them out, during the battle i got charged by cav right into my elites and instead of using platoon firing they just let a volley fly from all the way across the formation, front row only, then the front row started reloading and no one else fired!!

Theyre acting like firggin militia!! WTF?!

Is this a known bug or just a fluke?

[Rave]

They're supposed to do that against cavalry.

[B-DizL]

Really? Cuz it didnt seem to work very well at all... they could at least change to fire by rank instead.

[l33tl4m3r]

Really? Cuz it didnt seem to work very well at all... they could at least change to fire by rank instead.

All firing drills act oddly against cavalry -- only your first line really fires.

It's something I've seen happen with Mass Fire, Rank Fire, and Platoon Fire!

[Ecka65]

I've got a theory and it is based on reload skill. I've noticed this issue vs cavalry too. But when I was fiddling with reload times to simulate a unit armed with 19th century breach loaders I noticed that line infantry with higher reload then used rank fire vs cavalry. Sort of like, "crap, cavalry, fire a mass volley" changed to "no worries lads, stick to the drill and we'll be fine".

[Kip]

You're actually better off this way, ironically. It's most likely a bug, since l33t pointed out that it happens that way with Mass and Rank fires too.

But, for the irony: A volley is more effective against cavalry than platoon fire. Platoon Fire's advantage lies in its ability to put forward a steady stream of fire over a long period of time. Platoon fire will decimate any other firing drill in a shoot out. However, cavalry can close the distance to an infantry regiment in very quick time. Volley and Ranked fire are better in this situation.

[antaeus]

do you really want part of your front rank crouching down on their knees reloading when a wall of cavalry hit? or do you want them standing with bayonets forward?

[Ecka65]

do you really want part of your front rank crouching down on their knees reloading when a wall of cavalry hit? or do you want them standing with bayonets forward?

I've read this three times to make sure I got it right...

Front rank kneeling is how a square works and...yep, the light bulb has probably gone on now, squares counter cavalry charges. A man standing will get bowled over by a freakin' horse! I know, I own horses and am around them every day. A man kneeling however with a bayonet pointing at it's guts and chest and another man behind him standing doing same is like a pike wall.

I know Empire doesn't quite get this right, but in truth the sight often freaked the horses and they wouldn't press home. Those glinting sharpish looking things with men behind them was often enough to check a horse or force it to swerve away.

So in long answer, I'm with the OP. If cavalry wants to try a frontal assault give 'em ranked volley fire and "front rank kneel!"

[antaeus]

I've read this three times to make sure I got it right...

Front rank kneeling is how a square works and...yep, the light bulb has probably gone on now, squares counter cavalry charges. A man standing will get bowled over by a freakin' horse! I know, I own horses and am around them every day. A man kneeling however with a bayonet pointing at it's guts and chest and another man behind him standing doing same is like a pike wall.
"

what i meant was.. in the game... when you fire by rank, the front rank kneels, turns away and starts to reload their guns - they dont simply kneel down and brace for impact.

so firing by rank would be worse for a cavalry charge because the horses will hit while the front and possibly the second rank are kneeling and not really concentrating on the horses about to hit them.

on the other hand when they're standing and firing a single volley, they're facing the horses and ready to go.

in an ideal world, infantry would have the option of presenting bayonets with front rank kneeling - this would also allow you to build some nice big multiple regiment squares too.. but the game doesnt give us that option.

[leonn]

I've read this three times to make sure I got it right...

Front rank kneeling is how a square works and...yep, the light bulb has probably gone on now, squares counter cavalry charges. A man standing will get bowled over by a freakin' horse! I know, I own horses and am around them every day. A man kneeling however with a bayonet pointing at it's guts and chest and another man behind him standing doing same is like a pike wall.

I know Empire doesn't quite get this right, but in truth the sight often freaked the horses and they wouldn't press home. Those glinting sharpish looking things with men behind them was often enough to check a horse or force it to swerve away.

So in long answer, I'm with the OP. If cavalry wants to try a frontal assault give 'em ranked volley fire and "front rank kneel!"

very true,although there are records of cavalry breaking fully formed squares.the french did it at waterloo.

[B-DizL]

Wow this thread really grew some legs, the last time i checked it only had 3 posts and 2 were mine

Front rank kneeling is how a square works and...yep, the light bulb has probably gone on now, squares counter cavalry charges. A man standing will get bowled over by a freakin' horse! I know, I own horses and am around them every day. A man kneeling however with a bayonet pointing at it's guts and chest and another man behind him standing doing same is like a pike wall.

I know Empire doesn't quite get this right, but in truth the sight often freaked the horses and they wouldn't press home. Those glinting sharpish looking things with men behind them was often enough to check a horse or force it to swerve away.

So in long answer, I'm with the OP. If cavalry wants to try a frontal assault give 'em ranked volley fire and "front rank kneel!"

Very good point...

in an ideal world, infantry would have the option of presenting bayonets with front rank kneeling - this would also allow you to build some nice big multiple regiment squares too.. but the game doesnt give us that option.

This is also true, but even if they dont use their bayonets in the game id still rather get a change to pull off 2 maybe 3 volleys before the cav gets to my men cuz like KippyK said they wont last long once they actually reach my line

[Kip]

I'd rather have two to three full volleys of musket fire into the enemy cavalry before they strike

[Keiichi]

I'd rather have two to three full volleys of musket fire into the enemy cavalry before they strike

I think any charge slow/obvious enough to let two (much less three) volleys fire before driving home was doomed to failure from the start . antea's point that you want your front rank standing ready with bayonets is a great one and it certainly seems to work; during a frontal charge often one or two horses will fall immediately upon contact and few men will get tossed by the charge.

Oh, but there's one quirk with this system: elephants are still considered 'regular' targets, and platoon firing units will use platoon drill to engage them which really doesn't work too great. On the other hand since elephants are fairly slow, rank firing units often can get two volleys off before a frontal charge hits and it's very effective.

[Kip]

I think any charge slow/obvious enough to let two (much less three) volleys fire before driving home was doomed to failure from the start . antea's point that you want your front rank standing ready with bayonets is a great one and it certainly seems to work; during a frontal charge often one or two horses will fall immediately upon contact and few men will get tossed by the charge.

Oh, but there's one quirk with this system: elephants are still considered 'regular' targets, and platoon firing units will use platoon drill to engage them which really doesn't work too great. On the other hand since elephants are fairly slow, rank firing units often can get two volleys off before a frontal charge hits and it's very effective.

Well but kneeling soldiers would only be involved in the charge at all if its coming from the direct front. In which case I still want my volleys

I'd rather a reduced strength unit of horse, which is probably already "shaken" or "wavering" hit a kneeling line than a nearly full strength unit of horse that is "eager" hitting my standing men. Of course any unit that uses Platoon Fire is of much better quality than my Rank Fire Line Infantry, so the comparison isn't completely valid, but I think you get my point.

[Mordrorru]

I didn't think it was a bug, I thought it was design because it just makes sense. Infantry "know" they only have a short time to get shots in before the cavalry charge hits them, so the front rank just opens up instead of using drill firing tactics. Very effective.

It's particularly nice with my guards units, so they can blast cavalry charges with a barrage before they hit, instead of picking at them a bit in their usual manner. As has been said, platoon firing, while highly effective against other infantry, is almost entirely useless against a cavalry charge. So I'm glad it's the way it is.

There's nothing like the satisfaction you get when you kite enemy cavalry with your skirmishers just within your line, and 3/4 of them just drop dead because they got mowed down by your infantry.

[pericles_plato]

Well i would rather have them kneeling reloading. By this time you always have bayonets ready on musket and can drive the musket into the horse from a kneeling to standing position. @-3 volleys is better than having your men standing waiting for cavalry charge.

[aeoleron9]

It's an interesting bug(feature?). It's good for platoon fire units because otherwise they can't get any shots off against cavalry, but it's not good for units with rank fire and mass fire. Perhaps they felt rank fire and mass fire are too effective against cavalry?

[Keiichi]

It's an interesting bug(feature?). It's good for platoon fire units because otherwise they can't get any shots off against cavalry, but it's not good for units with rank fire and mass fire. Perhaps they felt rank fire and mass fire are too effective against cavalry?

Actually, I think their intention was to prevent situations like this: as we know a unit using rank fire drill will not normally commence firing until every man in the unit is reloaded. Now imagine you had a situation were only part of your line had been able to fire at the opposing infantry, let's say only 10 men in the first rank fired (followed by the 10 men behind them). You've stretched your men into a double line, so there are 60 men in the first rank, of which 10 are currently reloading.

Suddenly some cavalry come charging headlong. You have 50 men with loaded muskets in the first rank, but they just stand there waiting for 10 men to reload. Cavalry charges in freely and sends men flying. Now THAT would be aggravating.

And mass fire works normally against cavalry, light infantry for sure have no problems with mass fire against cavalry, so I thought you were talking about minutemen. I just tested it however, and minutemen fired en masse normally against cavalry.

[Kip]

Actually, I think their intention was to prevent situations like this: as we know a unit using rank fire drill will not normally commence firing until every man in the unit is reloaded. Now imagine you had a situation were only part of your line had been able to fire at the opposing infantry, let's say only 10 men in the first rank fired (followed by the 10 men behind them). You've stretched your men into a double line, so there are 60 men in the first rank, of which 10 are currently reloading.

Suddenly some cavalry come charging headlong. You have 50 men with loaded muskets in the first rank, but they just stand there waiting for 10 men to reload. Cavalry charges in freely and sends men flying. Now THAT would be aggravating.

But how often do you have a rank-fire opportunity that only 10 out of 60 in a rank fire? That's extremely topical. Although I do agree, it would be very aggravating

[Keiichi]

But how often do you have a rank-fire opportunity that only 10 out of 60 in a rank fire? That's extremely topical. Although I do agree, it would be very aggravating

More often than I'd like to admit! Just kidding, you're right it's not entirely common, but sometimes line infantry make bad decisions that result in only part of the line firing (for example not shooting at the enemy line that is fully in their firing arc, but instead the enemy line that is barely touching the very edge of their firing arc; or commencing fire the very instant something enters their firing arc thus not giving enough time for every man in the unit to get a shot).