Macedonian's Question

[conorr]

Using the macedons in RTRPE, loving them too btw, I was wondering which unit I should use and why, or which you guys use and why.

The hypaspist spearmen that use a throw weapon before charge OR the hypaspist swordsmen with superior attack.

[Byakkotai]

I usually use an army of consisting of two Cretan archers, one of the armour piercing skirmishers, 2 heavy cavalry ( 1 in case I have a family member ) , 3 Hypatistai ( swords ) about 4-5 Hypatistai and the rest into the best Phalanx unit available ( the 2 turns construction time one's ) I am fairly new to the RTR units so I can't remember them all :p This army setup is mainly for defense though, with the swords serving as flanking units and the heavy spearmen serving as skirmishers until they run out of javelins, then I use them all on one or two attacking units to make them rout. But for an offensive setup I would trade in most of the Phalanx units for at least 6 swordsmen and 6-8 heavy spearmen.

[OctavianIV]

I think you're talking about Ashetairoi spearmen (less men, but better spearmen).

[Byakkotai]

There is only one phalanx unit of the Macedonians that takes 2 turns to recruit, but you're not really helping the guy..

[despot_of_rhodes]

I don´t remember the recruitment and upkeep costs of hypaspistai units in RTR PE, but considering the fact, that they are bit more expensive in ExRM, you would go bankrupt after you bild one of those armies. This guys were kind of elite, kings guard etc. they aren´t supposed to be built en masse. They are perfect flanking and shock units, with extremly good abilities in close combat, but to hold the line, you should use a standard macedonian phalangitai, since they are cheap in upkeep and it makes things more historical, while playing the "realism mod"

[OctavianIV]

As Macedon I usually have the bulk of my forces made up of Pezhetairoi (say, 6-7 of them) and 2 Hypaspist units (I like the javelin throwing variety because they get an extra hit at the enemy before they close) the rest is either mercenary cavalry of some sort, Cretan archers, and peltasts. Peltasts are a big part of my strategy, so I use at least 4-5 in every army, but it's not absolutely necessary. Because on the whole your main are slow awkward phalangites, you want enough of them to hold the line while other more mobile units like Thracian infantry flank and destroy the enemy. In other words, hammer and anvil - Keeping things more historical actually works in your favour here, as the standard Macedonian phalangites are actually pretty good troops if used well. You don't need a lot of them, just enough to engage the enemy while your supporting troops finish them off. It's not really a naturally offensive army like say the Gauls' or the Romans', but your supporting troops will make it so if you choose them that way.

[Erkki]

You havent answered him yet...

Seems that the Hypaspists with spears have 1 more charge and 2 more in defense skill but lack 1 armour and 1 shield + have a volley(or two?) of spears. I like them more than the ones using swords, they look even more cool as well.


Related to this, Pezheroi\Chrysaspides vs. Chalkispides. Which one to use? The Macedonian Chalks have shorter pikes, though. I've made a few notes on them but I'n not 100% sure of any of them. Which one to use, and is the other then of any use at all?

EDIT: spear-hypaspists(macedonian) compared to the ones with swords have

-3 attack
-1 shield
-1 armour but
+ 1 charge
+ 3 defense skill
+ a volley of javelins(11 attack).
+ inspire nearby troops(not sure if this ones correct though)

[leemyster]

out of the two i would say the hyspati spears are the best, however it matters what kinda player you are. If your more of a opitunistic player then swords are best because they allow you to quickly exploit and flank to your best advantages. However, if your more of a player that pre determines where your going to attack then spears are probs better because the spear attack before charge will take out about 10-15 men and seriously hurt the morale of them.

However, as economics goes its probally better use use hetorai cavalry instead of hypasti. Though for both units the charge bonus is high compared to other infantry its nothing compared to a charge of 26 from 40 hetoria. Hetoria have an upkeep of about 1050 while hysapti are like 600 and for that extra amount you get a unit that can rout light skirmishers (and heavier ones with support from more units), can easily chase fleeing enemies, a great chrage that can break most light troops and greater monaurability.

The only place i can see hypasti being used effectively is against rome where you want to spread 9 units of pezaroti out wide in a big wall of pikes and allow a couple of units of hypasti to flank round one roman infantry unit and attack from the side or behind. Then you want another unit of pezaroti to run to a postion in front of the hypasti who have just attacked to protect their rear. As roman infantry are the most disciplined troops a massed cavalry charge from the rear while their engaged does not break them (if no other factors are taken into account) so you want to wear them down a bit then launch a mass cavalry charge and hope to break them.

[Lysimachus]

Just build both. Really. It's not that hard. Engage your phalanxes and give them the special right end of the battle line and wheel them round to engage the troops attacking your troops closest to the right. Well, if you're like me with a phalanx battle line consisting from left to right of Chalkispides --> Pezhetairoi --> Asthetairoi --> Hypaspists though it doesn't really matter. They're either flanking troops or the troops for storming settlements (in which case the Hypaspist Swordsmen really come into their own when they carved their way through a unit of Seleucid Chalkaspides for me).