Mormons and their prophet, what to say??

[The Noble Lord]

Does any of you believe that Joseph Smith really uncovered those gold plates with the religious texts and that he witnessed a revelation as a boy??
Furthermore, what you guys say about the Book of Mormon and their portrayal of the Christianity??
It would be very interesting to observe opinions here because I am not that much familiar with the Mormon religion and what it offers.

NOTE: This thread is not made in order to ridicule Mormons in any way or form. It would not be tolerated!

[pericles_plato]

I believe not because their is not archeological evidence of that ever happening. South Park did an episode on this. That is actually what they believe. I read it and it's BS to me. It's a good read none the less but its just that it has no proof.

[IrishHitman]

I believe not because their is not archeological evidence of that ever happening. South Park did an episode on this. That is actually what they believe. I read it and it's BS to me. It's a good read none the less but its just that it has no proof.

The same way I read the Bible and it's BS to me

A Christian criticising a Mormon is just plain crazy...
Which is crazier, a man travelling from Israel to America and some gold plates being written about him or a man rising from the dead, then becoming part of God?

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

it. doesn't. make. any. sense.

[Rich86]

To be honest what they believe seems no more or less credible than what any of the other mainstream religions spout.

[Francebunkerer]

To be honest what they believe seems no more or less credible than what any of the other mainstream religions spout.

Just that it is more recent, and hasn't been hammered into the minds of people for at least one-and-a-half thousand years.

[Rich86]

Just that it is more recent, and hasn't been hammered into the minds of people for at least one-and-a-half thousand years.

We have a winner

[Garrigan]

To be honest what they believe seems no more or less credible than what any of the other mainstream religions spout.

Hmm, well at least the trail can go slightly cold with Christianity. Not so with mormonism. Either Joseph Smith found these tablets which no-one else has ever seen just over 100 years ago, or he didnt and mormonism is a total fallacy.

At least there's slightly more room for manoeuvre with older religions...

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

Hmm, well at least the trail can go slightly cold with Christianity. Not so with mormonism. Either Joseph Smith found these tablets which no-one else has ever seen just over 100 years ago, or he didnt and mormonism is a total fallacy.

Mormonism is far more clearly made up than christianity, Jesus could have feasably existed, Smith's tables? just no...

[Francebunkerer]

Mormonism is far more clearly made up than christianity, Jesus could have feasably existed, Smith's tables? just no...

Well, there is more evidence that Joseph Smith existed.
Just because a religion's founder exists/-ed doesn't mean it's true. I mean, it is quite credible that L. Ron Hubbard existed.

[The Noble Lord]

Well, there is more evidence that Joseph Smith existed.

Well of course that he existed and he was a real person. The issue that is presented here is how was Joseph Smith able to present himself as a prophet and to basically start a new religion, a new branch of Christianity.
We all know that during their "Illinois period" Mormons adopted revelations from Joseph Smith that dealt with polygamy and other more "explosive" issues. But going back to the theological side you have to ask the question here, was Joseph Smith just a well skilled preacher or really a prophet who revealed something holly and something that really promises salvation.
If yes then entire Christianity should look up to the Mormons, if no then millions of Mormons across the world are living a lie if I may say so.
That's the question that's at hand, is Mormonism a real deal or not?? I guess longer debate and more evidence on both sides should lead to some sort of conclusive answer.

[Rich86]

Mormonism is far more clearly made up than christianity

...How so? Christianity makes equally absurd claims.

Jesus could have feasably existed, Smith's tables? just no...

So what if Jesus existed? As Francebunkerer said - Hubbard existed; Joseph Smith existed. Jesus existing proves nothing.
Also why 'just no' to Smith's tables? How is it any less absurd than some of the stuff Christians expect us to follow? Would; Garden of Eden? Just no.... suffice?

[Dunecat]

If we're trying to fish for mormon members it's not worthwhile, it's been tried and doesn't produce anything satisfying.

They don't even squirm.

[Muagan_ra]

Mormonism was pretty lost on me when I heard the whole "Jesus was a white American" idea. Just sounds like a Utah folk religion, to me.

[Hippolord]

And Jesus, was a white Israeli, sounds like Israeli mischief to me...

[chilon]

Does any of you believe that Joseph Smith really uncovered those gold plates with the religious texts and that he witnessed a revelation as a boy??
Furthermore, what you guys say about the Book of Mormon and their portrayal of the Christianity??

Ask them what the Celestial Kingdom means in Mormon theology.

Ask them why only Mormons get into the "highest level of Heaven" while non-Mormons must toil away.

[Garrigan]

So what if Jesus existed? As Francebunkerer said - Hubbard existed; Joseph Smith existed. Jesus existing proves nothing.
Also why 'just no' to Smith's tables? How is it any less absurd than some of the stuff Christians expect us to follow? Would; Garden of Eden? Just no.... suffice?

My point was that there's a slight air of mystery surrounding the larger religions. It is nigh impossible for anyone to piece together exactly what of Jesus' life is true, and what is made up, with the evidence avaliable to us.

However there is no "fog of time" to penetrate with mormonism. Either you believe some american found some golden tablets never seen by any other living human just over a lifetime ago, or you dont. If you factor in how benefitial his "chance finding" was...well I'm sure the more cynical amongst you understand why Mr Smith may have possibly made it up...

EDIT: Although thinking about it I'd probably react much the same way to someone claiming he had been dictated the word of God in a cave, and would recite it for someone to write down, word for word.

Maybe it is just time that makes them more believable; we become numbed to their unlikelyness by constant exposure to them?

[FuZe]

"If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. "
-- Bertrand Russell

I had already used this quote in another post, it was begged again here because it illustrates the other side of the coin. Its easy to clown on LDS beliefs when you come from a different frame of viewing the world. Yet, all to often, the people who eagarly mock the blind adherents of one religion happen to be the same people who cling to their own irrational but comforting beliefs, in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

We are all vulnerable to this. Those who believe they are not are in fact the most vulnerable of all. The acknowledgement of this inherent fallibility is what separates science from religion.

[Dunecat]

Yet, all to often, the people who eagarly mock the blind adherents of one religion happen to be the same people who cling to their own irrational but comforting beliefs, in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

Right, this is especially the case if you're having a conversation with your friends or relatives. Less so in other environments, like academia. TWC is one of those environments where many do know what they are talking about. Few argue here in favor of one-sided coins. Here you will find few prejudices that go unanswered. Here you will find many reasonable men seeking truth, not victory in an argument. Here you will find topics discussed from many angles, enlightening those with hard hearts. While this subforum is not perfect, ignorant shouting matches are not the norm here.

Interrupting a conversation to state that there are different viewpoints might make you look wise in an informal setting, but amongst people who have a passion for knowledge you are annoying and appear an amateur.

We are all vulnerable to this. Those who believe they are not are in fact the most vulnerable of all. The acknowledgement of this inherent fallibility is what separates science from religion.

A nice sentiment but your judgement is needlessly bumping this doomed thread.

This was our last mormon thread, and it failed. I tried to get some clearly defined articles of faith from a mormon but he gave up. Not once during my stay at TWC have any of the handful of Mormon's put up a reasonable fight. None have accurately articulated what Mormonism is, none have been able to refute or justify common criticisms, and there has not been one successful apologist that could even convince another mormon to keep the faith.

The mormon presence in EMM has little to be proud of.

[FuZe]

Here you will find many reasonable men seeking truth, not victory in an argument. Here you will find topics discussed from many angles, enlightening those with hard hearts. While this subforum is not perfect, ignorant shouting matches are not the norm here.

Great, thats encouraging; hope to see more of that. However wouldnt you agree that this thread is a very bad example of this? This "conversation" appears less about truth-seeking and more like beating up on a straw man. We could have the same "conversation" about Voodoo, or snake-handling, or [insert minority religion here] but the result would be the same.

The other thread you pointed out is also the antithesis of "reasonable men seeking truth" and more about (as you put it) a "fight". So in that sense, yes it was a failure. Its easy for the many gang-up on and humiliate the few.