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Thread: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0! (Outdated, see Download Thread)

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  1. #1

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Hell-o everyone... The Good Look Mod with all the goodies I made in a past few weeks is released. See the release thread:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=279861

    As to the Invasion of Korea: I suppose, if someone will create a map of the Far East with China, Korea, Mongolia and Japan on it, it will be not a problem to shift the campaign there — since we have the unit base and there are enough sources on these countries during the sixteenth century that are available on the internet...

    Another, easier solution would be just adding a few provinces of the Korean peninsula to the top of the current Japanese map — similarly to the France and Norway in Viking Invasions. It worked there, why not here?

    Bonus screenshot — new Mori Hatamoto unit charging:



    See ya!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Helloween,

    Now that's MAGIC!!! Beautiful cards, proper titles, and oh so easy to install... this addition seriously helps my immersion in what has become a top-notch mod!

    I dunno what this "+rep" stuff is I keep seeing, but if it is mine to give then I think you people are seriously deserving! Big thanks again to the BoA team and Alex, but some serious follow-up thanks to Hayami and Helloween - and long may that alliance live!!

    Finally, Korea-wise, my (unasked for! - Sorry!) opinion is that I ain't too sure! I think the detail that you are bringing to BoA would be hard to replicate for Korea, which was in many ways a sprawling disaster for Hideyoshi over about 6 years. From what I recall, the Korean occupation was illconceived, uneasy and uncertain at best, and it might also be tough to hit a realistic balance, as sea battles played a big part (Admiral Yi stuck at least five major defeats on the Japanese fleets, seriously changing the invasion plan). Not sure I have all that correct, and I suppose rebels and pirates could be spawned to replicate some of this, but I for one am happy with what we have brewing!

    Thanks again!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    You are correct. Initially Toyotomi's invasion of Korea was successful, but he didn't plan very well for eventualities. A big part of the plan included avoiding the Korean navy, which was vastly superior to the Japanese navy. Japanese ships weren't designed for war on the open seas and they knew it, they didn't stand a chance to a naval power like Korea, especially with the Korean turtle ships which were arguably the best ships in the world at that time. Eventually the Korean Navy caught up to them, and that was that. As you said there is no real way to properly simulate the naval battles of the time.

  4. #4
    Hound of Ulster's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Wow...awesome screenshot.

    Concerning Korea...a good place for sources would be wikipedia, but I'm not sure if Osprey has volume on the Korean military at the time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseon_Dynasty
    Last edited by Hound of Ulster; July 23, 2009 at 08:27 PM.
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Killing is Negotiating' A militiaman in 'Blackhawk Down'

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hound of Ulster View Post
    Wow...awesome screenshot.

    Concerning Korea...a good place for sources would be wikipedia, but I'm not sure if Osprey has volume on the Korean military at the time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseon_Dynasty
    I have the "Samurai Invasion: Japan's Korean War 1592-98" by Stephen Turnbull - it's not Osprey, it's Cassell, here's a fragment:

    The Korean army was therefore very primitive by Japanese standards, and this was further reflected in its equipment. The basic design of a suit of Korean armour consisted of a three-quarter-length heavy coat worn over an inner garment that resembled a divided apron, with trousers and leather boots. By the Koryŏ Period lamellar armour had been introduced, the lamellae being added either to the outside of the coat or inside it, or stitched inside the lining. The final version was the studded coat, whereby the heads of rivets, which held in place small plates inside the armour, protruded from its outside surface to give an appearance very similar to brigandine. Officers would also sport a bright coloured sash or belt over coats of red or blue, but the usual appearance for most wearers was of dull brown fabric of cotton or hemp.

    The Korean helmet consisted of a simple rounded conical bowl made from four main pieces riveted together and secured round the brow. A neck guard of lamellae or brigandine was suspended from it in three sections, and decoration in the form of feathers could be flown from the helmet point. Officers' helmets could be lacquered black and ornamented with gold and fur. Korean foot soldiers wore no armour at all, just their traditional white clothes with a sleeveless black jacket and a belt, but a felt hat gave some small protection in battle.

    Many Korean swords were two-edged, straight-bladed weapons, although curved swords like Japanese katana were also made, and actual Japanese models were imported. By contrast, Korean polearms showed considerable Chinese influence. Their use was most prized from the back of a horse, so we see cavalrymen armed with tridents, long straight spears and glaives with heavy curved blades much wider than a Japanese naginata. Unique to Korea, however, was the flail, a rounded hardwood stick, painted red and four feet long, to which was attached a shorter and heavier mace-like shaft studded with iron nails or knobs. The attachment was provided by a short length of chain. The flail was highly regarded, and successful candidates for the military examinations had to gallop along a trench and knock over a certain number of artificial heads. Foot soldiers were armed with all the above varieties of polearm except the flail.

    Prowess at archery was also greatly valued, and the celebrated Admiral Yi Sun-sin was an accomplished archer. The ordinary Korean bow was a composite reflex bow, made from mulberry wood, bamboo, water buffalo horn and cow sinew spliced together. It had a pronounced negative curve, against which the bow had to be pulled in order to string it. A Japanese source from the time of the 1592 invasion claims that Korean bows were the one thing in which the Koreans were superior to the Japanese, because their range was 500 yards against the Japanese longbow's range of 350 yards.

    The one thing the Korean army could be really proud of was its artillery. In addition to the cannon that were mounted on Korean warships or on the walls of castles, an army in the field could boast multiple rocket launchers firing volleys of steel-tipped arrows or darts, which were devastating against close formation troops if timed correctly. Otherwise it lacked armoured infantry, long spears and arquebuses, as well as proper organisation, combat experience, trained officers and a clear chain of command, and this was an army that was to face an invasion by one of the contemporary world's most sophisticated military machines.
    Say, we can use the existing Ming units to make their Korean counterparts, like the Guan Dao cavalry... All the current elite Ming units in BoA are Korean anyway.

    Chosŏn map:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Just take these regions, along with capitals, and add them to the top of the current map... No need to worry about the naval battles — they were never done properly in a TW game: even in Empire, they are still poor.

    To simulate the Korean superiority at the sea we can just give them better ships from the vanilla. Maybe even several variants, like a simple ship and an elite one. Since there are no in-game models for them, my descriptions and infopics will give the full picture of what they are.

    We can also ask the people of "Blue Lotus: Total War" (from which the "Battles of Asia" already borrows some models) to use some of their Korean stuff. They are a fantasy mod (dragons, demons, undead and kamikaze units), but they also have many models suitable for our period.

    P.S. I'll look for a few more books on the subject.

  6. #6
    Hound of Ulster's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    I forget that Turnbull did some work on the invasion by Japan

    Nice map
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Killing is Negotiating' A militiaman in 'Blackhawk Down'

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Well, we can at least try to add Korea to this map... And I didn't mean with realistic proportions — you can place it closer, so not much more new water would be needed. I don't want a separate mod for the invasions: too much hassle for such a small timeframe.

    There is still an old option of adding Japan to the East Asia map with China, Korea and Mongolia already in place; and it shouldn't really need the reduction of Japanese provinces, as province limit is around 200. As to water — I thought the problem is with land-to-water ratio, not the overall amount of it... Adding some land should even it up.

    Are there any volunteers to try expanding a map?

    Edit:

    I don't think we should start on it now, as having a good STW-like campaign is my top concern...

    Even with a complete lack of team and support, we two (me and Hayami) should set the campaign straight much earlier than anyone will release any other Sengoku Jidai mod — in any TW game. Still, after we finish fixing it, the mod needs somewhere to go to. Since there are already resources for China, Korea and Mongolia, expanding the campaign to the whole East Asia of the period should be a natural way... And doing the sole Korea can be a first step, which is quite bearable for the two people.
    Last edited by Helloween; July 25, 2009 at 07:45 AM.

  8. #8
    Reverend Scott's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    It's great to see so much thought and effort going into refining and expanding this mod. I absolutely encourage any and all expansion into other areas and (time periods) of Asia! I will play and enjoy them all.
    Not to argue with anyone, but in my humble opinion, a great place to start adding to the campaign would be including Kublai Kahn's futile attempts to invade Japan in 1274 and 1281.
    I have two reasons for this:
    1.) No new maps would be needed, just new Mongol units and scripts.

    2.)It would make sense since Mongol Invasions was the original C.A. expansion for Shogun: Total War.

    And that's my two cents . Keep up the great work, gentlemen.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Yet that would require a new campaign, wouldn't it? And new units, yet we have no modeler... While the Korea does not require either.

    But yes, it does make sense: both because the Shogun units can be used as the base of the roster (we have Chinese Chu-Ko-Nu, which can be reskinned for the Ashigaru crossbowmen, while other Japanese units are already in; RTW got animations for the javelins and pikes of the era, yet not for the 16th century Korean weapons); and because of decently available sources for the time period, both on Mongols and Japanese.

    Still, the Mongols either require a base in Korea to transport the troops from, or it will be done by weird STW-like scripting thingy with magically appearing reinforcements — which I never liked.

    I suppose the extra campaigns can be done by anyone, while the map and units require some skills... So, the map with both Japan and Korea should allow two extra campaigns, without excessive scripting as well.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Quote Originally Posted by Helloween View Post
    The pictures are taken from various Osprey books: most are from illustrations by Angus McBride, although there are also several by Wayne Reynolds, Howard Gerrard and Richard Hook... Cut out, resized, retouched, brightened, sharpened, properly alphaed and put into the game by me.
    From this thread:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=279861

    P.S.

    Damn it, I am quoting myself... Again!

  11. #11
    hip63's Avatar Give me some BASS!
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    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Created an installer for this:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=282715

    hip63

  12. #12
    Hound of Ulster's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    tried to run the Mori, but had CTD while loading a battle with the Rebels in Kyushu.

    I think this mod doesn't like me
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Killing is Negotiating' A militiaman in 'Blackhawk Down'

  13. #13

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Ah sorry, the rebels CTD was my fault, I noticed it a while back and have fixed it for the current release, but I can't give you the file without giving all the new/updated units as well. For the time being you're going to either need to autoresolve all battles against the rebels or create a new, temporary entry for the rebel textures in the descr_model_battles file. In particular, the rebel samurai to katana and rebel yari cavalry will cause crashes, and the foot archers have the wrong texture (though it did work for me anyways even before I fixed it).

    News on the cavalry problem, with the help of various people on the forums I do believe I've resolved the issue... I actually feel kinda stupid for not figuring it out on my own it was rather simple. I'm going to need to test it a bit more to make sure it works, but otherwise its fixed. Now just need the other 5 captain textures, and I need to add agents into the descr_strat file and I'll be ready for the first major release... which should be entirely bug free and addresses almost every element of the campaign. Once this is done, the only major things left will be making the rebels more realistic, giving them their own textures, creating and implementing the remaining mercenary units, and balancing/editing/describing all the buildings. Of course, I plan to continue to tweak various things like epithets, family trees, unit balance, starting forces, etc.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Hey, Kagemusha! How are my textures? I mean, visually — give some feedback... Captains, Sōhei and the alternate Naginata cavalry: so I'll fix them if something's wrong.

    I was busy for a few days: ran all over the city guitar shops (not that it's over, the battle has just begun), took a rest, was at birthday party — now need to rest again.

    Do the strat map adjustments; I'll make the remaining captain textures. Are they working any better with the Daimyō model?

    P.S.

    25 posts! 25 posts is what it takes to be able to give away rep points... Finally repped you, then had spread it some more between around 5 guys here: in order to be able to give one more to you.

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    You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
    Last edited by Helloween; August 02, 2009 at 04:01 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    ... Sounds like Christmas is coming early this year!
    "Who is the king of earthly kings, the greatest giver of gold and rings?"

  16. #16

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Yeah I'll give you more info the more I test it, heres what I've noticed so far:
    1) Captain models look great and they are working properly. It didn't entirely fix the problem however, but I have now been able to isolate it. Its clear that both the captain AND the officers attached to the general bodyguard units were the problem... before any cavalry unit with a captain would sometimes cause a crash... now its just the bodyguard unit which means those officers weren't working correctly. I have removed the officers temporarily to figure out exactly which one is the problem, then I'll remove it for good. Either way, problem solved, just need the rest of the captains done. Oh yeah and they do stand out enough, both from other elites, and from the general. Good work.

    2) Early Mori naginata cavalry are perfect. In fact, personally I find they look better than the late naginata cavalry, and may end up using them as the late mori bodyguard. But for now I'll keep them in the order they are, as the current late Mori bodyguard has a heavier armored appearance.

    3) You may have given me the wrong takeda naginata cavalry skin, its the same as the original skin as far as I can tell. Try resending the two takeda naginata skins.

    4) Oda Sohei looks particularly good, I suggest using that pattern for the other sohei (color mainly on the sleeves while the main robe stays white). Mori sohei looks fine but I like the Oda one better. Uesugi sohei seems to be unchanged, try resending that skin along with the takeda naginata cav. Ikko-ikki look absolutely great, now its just a question of making all the mercenary units (many of which aren't done yet) share some common appearances.

    Haha you didn't have to go to all that trouble just to give me +rep XD but thanks ^^

    As for the guitar shops, heh you're really determined to get that price. Well good luck with that, just make sure you don't end up spending as much on travel expenses XP

  17. #17

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    1 — I have quite liked the Daimyō that had different officers with them (sword, spear and banner), and would have liked to see some of the foot units like that.

    2 — It was probably the toughest one to make. Although I spent more time on colouring their captain.

    3 — I currently have two Takeda Naginata cavalry skins: one original and one mine... I'll pack you both along with the new captains.

    4 — Oda Sōhei just got a bit more tan robes, the Uesugi ones are whitened... The saffron top on Mōri is to distinguish their elite monks from the regular units of the other clans... Also, check the Uesugi ones, they had separate descriptions, were very cheap, yet weak. Are they now the same as other non-elites?

    5 — Can you write up the list of required new rebel skins again?

    And last, but not the least... The city where I live (Odessa) should have the best selection of instruments after our capital — and the prices in Kiev are even more exagerrated, so I won't need to spend anything on travel; as to the other countries — our customs would even out the price. There are a lot of tourists here now (including the bunch of the people from less civilised parts of ex-USSR, that come here for shopping), so I'll probably just wait for September or October for the value to drop... I'll also use what remains of the Summer to nag the guys at the shops a bit, since their prices seem to be tailored depending on the customer, having huge dollar signs in their eyes when they speak them (i.e. they steal too much extras from the shop for themselves). I can also try to abuse the rivalry between the shops... In the end, something should work.

    Is your brother getting better?

  18. #18
    Hound of Ulster's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    keep up the goodwork guys
    'Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War' Plato

    'Killing is Negotiating' A militiaman in 'Blackhawk Down'

  19. #19

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Yeahhhh... I shoulda mentioned this a few days ago but I'm taking a short break from the modding work. Not because I'm tired of it, but because I have agreed to do a short project for some friends. Submitted the first part to him earlier today, hopefully will be done by the weekend.

    As for my brother, he is well enough to be out and about again so he was instantly gone... not surprising knowing him. Hopefully he wont end up putting himself right back in the hospital though. mono's not something you usually get over in a couple weeks... can be months to a year in advanced cases. Anyhow thanks for asking, at the very least it means I don't have to spend time dealing with him for a while, which was getting exhausting in some ways. Don't get me wrong, me and my lil bro have been together and, dare I say, friends since we were little... but that doesn't mean we get along all, or even most of the time. So yeah I had no problem helping him out for a few weeks and I'm glad he's better... but I still don't condone his actions.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Sub-mod: Campaign for BoA 2.0!

    Hello.
    I am new to the discussion boards but not new to TW.
    Firstly thank you very much for the heroic and brilliant effort in making the BoA mod. It is really, really impressive.
    Secondly - I tried to download the specific fix for the Rebels-related bug, but the link seems to be broken. Does anyone have another location for the "rebels fix" ?
    Again, thank you to everyone who has donated so much time to this mod. You have made something really fantastic here.

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