Duplicated units

[Publius Quirinus]

Why do certain units have faction and AOR duplicates? For example, there's "sparabara" and "Eastern spearmen", "Eastern horse archers" and "horse archers", "thureophoroi" and "Greek thureophoroi". iirc the basic barbarian warband has a similar arrangement.

Playing as the Greek factions in the east, this doesn't bother me, but recently, playing with an Armenia campaign, it became a problem because I would hire regional mercs like Eastern spearmen or Eastern horse archers which are identical to my own sparabara and horse archers, and find that I could not retrain them. This is a problem because eastern spearmen, in particular, die like flies, and not being able to retrain them often left my army more depleted than it should be, deep in enemy territory. Sure this problem is avoidable with a little micromanagement, but...

Why not just make "sparabara" the AOR recruitable too, and get rid of the extra "Eastern spearmen"? imo it would add some flavour into Eastern combat-- "sparabara" sounds a lot less generic than "Eastern spearmen". And it would free up some unit slots for extra units, right?

[Scutarii]

Its for faction specific skins. ie: Armenian HA's have a green colouring to them, AOR ones are beige all-round, Parthian ones are pink/purple, etc. So, yeah, some of the lower level ones could go, like Eastern Spearmen.

[GoldShield Guard]

I think Quirinal is right, especially about the free slot for extra units. It would be far more enjoyable to have some new units, than have two or three duplicates of Eastern Spearmen.

[DimeBagHo]

The duplicate units don't really take up any extra slots. The tightest constraint we face is the number of models allowed in DMB. The limit on the number of units allowed in EDU is much higher. So units that look the same are pretty much free. List time I checked we had maybe 40-50 slots free for new models, but we still had around 250 slots free for new units.

[Scutarii]

I don't think there'll be a problem. Even with PMP.

[Vae victis]

Wardogs and Gladiators!!! Lol, make space.

[Spartan198]

Gladiators are fine, but I think we can do without wardogs.

[Vae victis]

Gladiators are fine, but I think we can do without wardogs.

Lol, I was just making a joke. I dont even know if using gladiators in armies would be historicaly correct. What the guys are saying above about duplicate units makes sense. I am other wise very pleased with XGMs' units.

[Spartan198]

Lol, I was just making a joke. I dont even know if using gladiators in armies would be historicaly correct.

Well, Spartacus did it. And I know there was one emperor who hired gladiators to train his soldiers.

[Scutarii]

But was there one who used the gladiators in the field? They're really just a utility for gladiator rebellions...

[Vae victis]

They're really just a utility for gladiator rebellions...

Lol

Did anyone ever use wardogs in their armies? I can see how you would set them loose on the enemy, but they would be a pain to retrive after the battle. Almost like releasing a pack of wolves into the countryside.
Lol, Im trying to think of other strange vanilla units that could have been used in real battles in history?

[Scutarii]

Apparently, the Romans did, and the British peoples did as well... Although, I don't know how far to trust Wikipedia at the moment...

[CaesarVincens]

War pigs were used in one battle against Carthage, but that was a one time occurrence.

[Vae victis]

Wasnt ther a unit in BI like wailing women or skreeching women? I wonder if they were used in battles. Their cries dishearten the enemy, lol.

[Scutarii]

That was vanilla RTW, not BI... Germania got Screeching Women. Apparently women did sometimes fight alongside their husbands in some tribes (Goths, I think?), but that's later than RTW, and the Goths were moving around a lot...

[Vae victis]

Lol, watch out for their shrill- eardrum peircing cries, and their sharp fingernails.

I think that we may see some more women warriors in the next XGM update. The Sarmations can use them for garrison duty. That should be all that they are useful for though, gaurding the village untill the men get back.

I think that sadly, not too many women played a part in ancient warfare. Maybe as camp followers. Lol, I can see how women can "boost morale" for a unit while on campaign. But for CA to add a unit of women that "boosts morale" during battles just doesnt seem right.

[Subrosa Florens]

The fact is that women were not at all unusual to find as warriours in the ancient world. Women quite commonly fought among the Celts, Germans, Scythians, and Sarmatians.

Even in extremely patriarchal societies such as the Greeks where they were prevented from bearing arms under normal circumstances, they still did so when their cities were threatened. While in Rome aristocractic women took such a fondness for fighting in the arena that one of the Emperors felt it necessary to pass a law forbidding it.

Women are not the weak and helpless creatures that patriarchal societies like to pretend they are. They are just as cruel and vicious as men, if not moreso.

[Vae victis]

Women are not the weak and helpless creatures that patriarchal societies like to pretend they are. They are just as cruel and vicious as men, if not moreso.

I did not mean to offend. I belive that women, if given the chance, can fight as good as men. The problem was that, in the ancient world, women had few rights, and not many were given the chance to fight. That is why their role in ancient warfare was limited. I also believe that "most" women were/are peaceful and will not fight if they have/had a choice. That is why the history books give them little mention in terms of warfare.

[Subrosa Florens]

That is because the history books were all written by men in patriarchal societies such as Greece and Rome. When looking at it with an unbiased eye one finds that it is both historically and archeologically attested to that women were indeed a regular part of the military in the barbarian societies I cited, the Celts, Germans, Scythians, and Sarmatians, and in a pinch also were in Greece and Rome, such as Arachidamia of Sparta who took up arms against Pyrrhus along with other women of the city.

Here is one site with some very basic info. Starlightman pointed out several Greek references here. Some archaeological evidence of Sarmatian warrior women here (the interesting thing about that site is what while they found men buried with children, they never found any women buried with children). A bit more here.

[Publius Quirinus]

Maybe it could be a horde unit then?