Phalanx VS Peltests?

[grouchy13]

After reading a number of books covering the art of Ancient Greek warfare i've noticed an intresting development,the use of the peltest during and after the Peloponnesian war into the Corinthian war. Athens was by no means the first to utilize this force Demosthenes used them in the mountainus terrain around Corcyra and Alcibiades during the campains around Chalcedon even equiping the crews of the Atheneian navy to fight ashore in this manner, my point being as opposed to a skirmisher force as in RTW could these troops be used in Hegmonia as the dare i say it early form of Roman legionary (IE) being able to use a missle weapon before having the ability to engage in hand to hand combat without bulking at the first sign of heavy infantry! my sources for this argument are Thucydides, Donald Kagan and Xenophon in his Hellinica history of my time xenophon in particuler in book 1 praises this new development. I know you guys will have enough units to sort but i think these warriors deserve a mention i'm just throwing it out there!

[ROFL Copter]

Woah, it helps to put periods in.

[Beorn]

Well, if the ending date of the mod is still Peloponnesian War, they shouldn't be in. Or else...

[ROFL Copter]

I say keep em out.

[Javierfv1212]

Heavy missiles troops where developed later on, thudeophoroi and thorakitai, but that is beyond the scope of this mod. Even during the peloponnesian war, peltasts were unarmored and mainly a skirmishing force. That doesn't mean they didn't fight hand to hand when they had set their enemies to rout with showers of missiles, but they were nothing like Roman legionnaries, not yet.

[ROFL Copter]

They were armored, not like hoplites of course, but good peltasts could defend themselves fairly well.

[Beorn]

IIRC, Thoukydides describes them as light skirmishers wielding a pelt, meaning a shield...

[torzsoktamas]

I think the team could include that agrianian peltast(it was shown in this threed).Its not a thureophoroi as he dosen't have armor,just a red tunic.

[ROFL Copter]

IIRC, Thoukydides describes them as light skirmishers wielding a pelt, meaning a shield...

Oops, I was thinking of something else. My mistake.

But I still think that they should not be included. Peltasts used in the Pelloponnesion War were different to any skirmishers used previous.

[Javi_Wan]

I think that this drawing is more of an helenist period. The first peltast were of thracian origin, mostly mercenaries. we must not confuse them with the greek acontistai, althought their equipment can be similar. And remember that the hoplite response was the ekdromoi (moreover the lighter armour)

[grouchy13]

The points raised about Peltests not being around before the Peloponnesian war i have to disagree any Polis in northern Greece near Thrace will defiantly have came across them before this time. This type of warfare was only picked up on by Demosthenes and Brasidas as the Peloponnesian war spread in scope and the theatre of battle went into mountanous area's like the northern parts of Greece and if there is a Thracian campaign in the game they definatly need Peltests.

[grouchy13]

here's that picture i posted earlier before TWC went down notice the Thracian style sheild and helmet and hoplite sword for close quarters combat.

[Spartan198]

here's that picture i posted earlier before TWC went down notice the Thracian style sheild and helmet and hoplite sword for close quarters combat.

He's Hellenistic period. That's a Phrygian helmet, not a Thracian.

[Thasitis]

one question

will the peltasts and the archers be strong like in real for many centuries???

in rtw vanilla and many mods i have the feeling that the archers and peltast are useless

i hope that will be different in this mode

remember alexander just won in the battle of gaugamela because of his peltasts

[Jarlaxe]

sorry man i cant see any pic here
but as for the phalanx and the peltasts you can't compare you need strength as you need speed
no comparison for me

[grouchy13]

I read in F.A.Q that the games timeline will now run through the period of the Peloponnesian War so i've dug up some more images of peltests for anyone interested in this type of warfare or for the guys developing the mod, enjoy!
Thracian peltest
Greek skirmishers
Athenian Peltast circa Peloponnesian War

[Tenerife_Boy]

but the mod is not from the alex timeframe...

[Agisilaos]

if you know how and when to use them they are really helpful. i love my archers peltasts are not bad, but they have very limited ammo.

[Spartan198]

My armies (faction armies that is, not my armies of "civilian contractors" ) are very uniform and I never use Peltasts...

[grouchy13]

a few peltasts never go amiss i mean check out the mess of ROFL's phalanx my slingers made in our online battle and peltests are always useful for turning flanks once there ammo is expended any of talk of using missle troops of being cowardly or not honerable is ridiculus