BBC4 Programme
Peter Hitchens demonstrates how Britain was manipulated into the Common Market and how EU membership has been removing our right to self determination.
This Sceptic Isle
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part4
Part5
Part6
This Sceptic Isle
BBC4 Programme
Peter Hitchens demonstrates how Britain was manipulated into the Common Market and how EU membership has been removing our right to self determination.
This Sceptic Isle
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part4
Part5
Part6
Praepositus
Re: This Sceptic Isle
I'd say the issue today is far from whether we should be in Europe or not, but rather to make the European Union more democratic and devolved.
Primicerius
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Intresting. Makes me regret somewhat not voting for UKIP, although Camerons conservatives are euro-sceptive enough to make me vote for them.
According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.
- King Edward III, 1339
Cheshire Cat
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Peter Hitchens is great, I've seen him speak before and he has a good sense of humour!
Ex-Quaestor of TWC: Resigned 7th May 2004
It Gets Worse.
Re: This Sceptic Isle
I hate it how Europe is used as a synonym for EU.Originally Posted by Desperado
The issue today is to over come the demographic, economic and spiritual crisis that Europe finds itself in and finding a way to re-establish a Europe of nations.
The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.
ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture
Praefectus
Re: This Sceptic Isle
So do I. For some people an organisation has become indistinguishable from a vast continent of different nations.
Primicerius
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Shorthand.
According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.
- King Edward III, 1339
Praefectus
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Thats true.
Praeses
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Why do we want to re-establish a Europe of nations? Nobody stands to gain from a patchwork of tinies who have no voice in anything. I'm not saying the EU is the best solution, that's of course debatable, but as far as I'm concerned we're turned into a single nation as soon as yesterday. All this fear of giving up our sovereignty annoys me.
I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but Im not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I dont know anything about. But I dont have to know an answer. I dont feel frightened by not knowing.
- Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.
It Gets Worse.
Re: This Sceptic Isle
How about because of the essence of Europe is being perverted by an ever more centralized elite with an American social vision? If you want a USE, move to America instead.
The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.
ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture
Re: This Sceptic Isle
With 27 members, making the Union democratic is impossible. It was possible with 12-15 members. But now, it is not.
Last edited by Каие; June 08, 2009 at 06:32 AM.
Reine
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Today, there's nothing but an "American Social Vision". Old Europe is dead.
"Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."
- Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)
It Gets Worse.
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Then let the world burn and man die a thousand deaths in the dark of night amidst screeching valkyries.
The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.
ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture
Reine
Re: This Sceptic Isle
That was called World War II.
"Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."
- Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)
Child of Nihil.
Re: This Sceptic Isle
No fat chicks.
'When people stop believing in God, they dont believe in nothing they believe in anything. '
-Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)
Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.
Praefectus
Re: This Sceptic Isle
How's that?
The "American social vision" is one of limited government and greater individual freedom, and even America strayed from that vision.
It's America that is no longer America. We're taking European examples now.
The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison
Praepositus
Re: This Sceptic Isle
It's not about creating a USE. It's about keeping our countries economicaly strong so that we can take on China and America in this globalised market, and ensuring that a third world war never occurs in Europe (the latter of which it's most definitely been succesfull in doing, the former to the most part). If we'd had an EU in the 1930s WWII would never have happened.
Stab, advance, Stab.
Re: This Sceptic Isle
The fat lady has not sung, yet.
Here Come The Judge
Re: This Sceptic Isle
It's somewhat strange as an American to watch EU law slowly absorb the member states. Much of the story of American history from the split with England to the 1930's is the story of federal power slowly eclipsing and absorbing state power, and watching Europe now is kind of like watching American history in fast-forward.
It makes me wonder whether you guys could one day go through a nullification crisis or civil war....
Re: This Sceptic Isle
Oh please oh please let that happen within my lifetime.
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