Units you think need stats their stats changed.

[Galahad56]

Hi there have been editing the export_descr_unit file for the third age mod and have made several tweaks with certain units from factions such as OotMM, Dwarves, Mordor, Isengard ect and am looking for any quick suggestions from the forum community as to what they believe needs changing.

I am realy just trying to do things like make elvish and dwarvish armies smaller but make the units stronger, snagas cheaper but weaker in melee, and a slight loss of hps for trolls ect.

Im just looking for quick posts identifying the unit, brief argument and reccomended changes i should make. These may be changes you have made yourself and are willing to share so i can collaborate them and hopefully put out a unit stats mod for everyone.

Any suggestions would be more than welcome as i am open to everyones opinions and arguments.

[PSIHOPAT]

Nice... Lets the imagination to flow....
1- Ranged from the elfish faction can have one unique special abilities -replacing fire arow with "shoot in the legs" The result will be > enemy toop atacked move with very slow speed .Can be very useful against trolls.Maybe can be made if their special atack afect stamina.
2-Combat bonus in montains for dwarf -Dwarf can have exceptional phisical resistence and run fast up to the montain.
3-Berseker for isengard can fave "lock_morale"
4-Generals of isengard can use warg as mount but very few in number and extremly dangerous+ability"eagle inspire nearby troops" - must be an example for all in his comand
5-Snaga will be useful if they have ability"hide in open terain"+"deploy stakes"
6-Some elite ranged unit can have ability to "inspire fear".
It is enough for now

[axnsan]

Nice... Lets the imagination to flow....
1- Ranged from the elfish faction can have one unique special abilities -replacing fire arow with "shoot in the legs" The result will be > enemy toop atacked move with very slow speed .Can be very useful against trolls.Maybe can be made if their special atack afect stamina. - impossible
2-Combat bonus in montains for dwarf -Dwarf can have exceptional phisical resistence and run fast up to the montain. - impossible
3-Berseker for isengard can fave "lock_morale" - they already do
4-Generals of isengard can use warg as mount but very few in number and extremly dangerous+ability"eagle inspire nearby troops" - must be an example for all in his comand - the eagle ability would have to be renamed, but it would work
5-Snaga will be useful if they have ability"hide in open terain"+"deploy stakes" -wouldn't make much sense...
6-Some elite ranged unit can have ability to "inspire fear". - wouldn't make much sense...
It is enough for now

wow, some actually possible ideas

[Caml3]

So it's not possible to implement "combat bonus in mountains" the way some units get bonuses in forests, snow or deserts? Maybe if the mountain climates get adjusted to always have snow, then give dwarves a snow bonus...

[PSIHOPAT]

5-Snaga will be useful if they have ability"hide in open terain"+"deploy stakes" -wouldn't make much sense...
6-Some elite ranged unit can have ability to "inspire fear". - wouldn't make much sense...

5-hitting one unit from behind bi javelin cause great casualties (dont use shield and defence skill) >make sense
-great problem for snaga its the cavalery charge >if they deploy stakes will have frontal protection>make sense
-if 4 units of snaga throw javelin fom behind in the enemy general will be great chance to kill them-make naga very useful in stategy of the battle >make sense

6-Fear its inspired whan one unit on the battle field make greath casuelties per second.When the factor of fear its greater >its is very probabile,enemy units broke the line and run in fear.From real life - one sniper inspire fear(it is not fun to die without see the enemy) > make sense

[axnsan]

5-Snaga will be useful if they have ability"hide in open terain"+"deploy stakes" -wouldn't make much sense...
6-Some elite ranged unit can have ability to "inspire fear". - wouldn't make much sense...

5-hitting one unit from behind bi javelin cause great casualties (dont use shield and defence skill) >make sense -what does this have to do with them being able to hide everywhere?
-great problem for snaga its the cavalery charge >if they deploy stakes will have frontal protection>make sense - snagas are supposed to be , so giving them stakes isn't exactly good...
-if 4 units of snaga throw javelin fom behind in the enemy general will be great chance to kill them-make naga very useful in stategy of the battle >make sense -what does this have to do with them being able to hide everywhere?

6-Fear its inspired whan one unit on the battle field make greath casuelties per second.When the factor of fear its greater >its is very probabile,enemy units broke the line and run in fear.From real life - one sniper inspire fear(it is not fun to die without see the enemy) > make sense - fire is inspired by units making
-many cassualties per second cause morale drop without giving fear attribute to anything
-archer =/= sniper

[PSIHOPAT]

-if 4 units of snaga throw javelin fom behind in the enemy general will be great chance to kill them-make naga very useful in stategy of the battle >make sense -what does this have to do with them being able to hide everywhere?
Answer-Snaga are very weak unit on the batlle field.If you can hide everywhare can be very useful>will have the chance to strike first from behind.All atack from behind are nasty.

6-Fear its inspired whan one unit on the battle field make greath casuelties per second.When the factor of fear its greater >its is very probabile,enemy units broke the line and run in fear.From real life - one sniper inspire fear(it is not fun to die without see the enemy) > make sense - fire is inspired by units making
-many cassualties per second cause morale drop without giving fear attribute to anything
-archer =/= sniper
Answer-One skiled archer can hit one apple from an great distance.One unit of elven archer have 60 man per unit.If their number will be 30 and will have greater precision(all arow hit the target) and,if their arow are javelin...lets say(armor penetration) + factor of fear > result its one powerful ranger unit.Resuming 30 elven archer+armor penetration+greater precision+inspre fear. Kill/sec+inspire fear=Inspire greater fear on the batlle field.

[abbews]

That would make snaga OP.

[PSIHOPAT]

) That would make snaga OP.

You can use cavalery first for recon mision.Simple.

[Renown]

Psihopat.... where do you get your ideas? Snaga hide everywhere? inspire fear? etc etc etc?

So you basically are saying (its okay for the player to fight against Snaga, because they can adapt..) but the AI? Don't you see how this would make your Snagas extremely OP... good lord.

[JonSnow]

Yay, another waste of a thread.

[Galahad56]

Yay, another waste of a thread.

Come on people, this is not what i intended. If anyone would be kind enough to give me some simple stat rebalances they think are logical based on books/movies i would be grateful. Snagas are slaves for crying out loud, they are too cheap to be a unit that should be a general hunter. In my opinion they should be used as a meat-shield to take some and dish some out before the main army engages.

I would really appreciate some constructive answers.

Edit: PSIHOPAT you did mention something i can thank you for which is your reference to the generals units on foot. I have also noticed that they are at many disadvantages when compared to factions with mounted bodyguard units. What would you suggest needs altering stats wise? Armour rating?

[PSIHOPAT]

I dont say "snaga inspire fear".Snaga in RC,RR- are useles.If they have "hide everywhere" will have one chance of survival.Isengard start with very few units that can stand in the face of rohan cavalery.Rohan with their low level cavalery "Scouts" make an real massakre in isengard line.How u stand in the face of rohan until apear Uruk-Hay pikeman?I played once with rohan >example of one battle I atack with 3 generals and 4 units of scouts .Result of the batle...i loose 6 horse and i kill 1000+ enemy(normale dimension of squad and V.H. batlle dificulty).This is balance ?Another thing...all generals that fight on foot must have greater defence to have chance of survival.Must be very few in number but very resistant.If one cavalery hit one troop of the general from the side of the general...GENERAL ITS DEAD.All their bodyguards are useles.Maybe someone can learn somthing if listen new ideea.In all thread i see just improvement for gondor,dale,rohan.... No one its interested bi evil faction.Their unit cards are....i dont say.Take a look at isengard units card.You can make diference betwen uruk-hai rider and uruk-hai archer? In 2 sec...in battle.
I like this mod but many people are reeeeeeeeeealy .........................
Many think they posses all the knwledge in the world and.I doubt.... I have one word-DONT MAKE A STATUE FROM ONE MAN WHO EXCEL IN ONE DOMAIN-maybe dont know milion of other thing more important...

[Renown]

balance.. I'm not too sure you understand the mechanics behind what balances what. I'm also not really convinced you've really played this game as intended.. by example you play with normal unit sizes - everyone here tests everything as HUGE....


By the way, I might not possess all the knowledge in the world, but I can at least make it appear as though I have some by typing in coherent sentences.


I can't even understand what you say half the time, without deciphering. Considering how many people have advised you to double check your spelling and writing ... its really a waste of time to read your posts..

[Renown]

general units aren't meant to be balanced from faction to faction. Though frankly I find generals on foot to be far more effective in a melee then mounted.


As to your unit stat changes.. have you not looked at RR/RC??

That mod pretty much handles everything you could want out of vanilla TATW units...

[PSIHOPAT]

PSIHOPAT you did mention something i can thank you for which is your reference to the generals units on foot. I have also noticed that they are at many disadvantages when compared to factions with mounted bodyguard units. What would you suggest needs altering stats wise? Armour rating?

You can reduce number of bodiguards of the general at minimum>4-5 man+general
You can add him defence skill and hp 2 or 3 hp +2-3 atack....depend of the general
In that way general will make experience very easy and can survive more time on the batle field.
You can make one general with mount if you want.Faction must have at last one tipe of cavalery.If u like isengard can use warg.If you like dwarf you can make general monted.Dont put more than 2 hp for dwarf with mount.

general units aren't meant to be balanced from faction to faction. Though frankly I find generals on foot to be far more effective in a melee then mounted.

Realy? Will be one dead general after one cavalery charge.If survive after one charge....no problem,will die in next charge.Ai its enough smart to kill general on foot.In 50% of cases >cavalery charge,from the side with general exposed ....general die.

[Renown]

That is flat out untrue. A Cavalry charge WILL NOT EVER KILL a General. Why? Because Charges do not take out more then 2 HP. They can only ever kill troops with 1 HP. Otherwise they will 'crash' into the enemy line, and then switch weapons and start attacking with that.

And AI generals are usually pretty stupid. Even in the best of AI mods. Cavalry generals I find die easier as they are more vunerable to pikes/spears then non-mounted generals which aren't really especially vunerable to anything.

[PSIHOPAT]

That is flat out untrue. A Cavalry charge WILL NOT EVER KILL a General. Why? Because Charges do not take out more then 2 HP. They can only ever kill troops with 1 HP. Otherwise they will 'crash' into the enemy line, and then switch weapons and start attacking with that.

And AI generals are usually pretty stupid. Even in the best of AI mods. Cavalry generals I find die easier as they are more vunerable to pikes/spears then non-mounted generals which aren't really especially vunerable to anything.

How i say IF general dont die in firs charge than will die in second.Usualy generals mounted die in melee combat when situation on the batle field its critical.When the line its about to be broken>general trie to save situation.All general mounted have 2 advantage: 1 charge(can be very,very destructive) 2 can retreat very fast in the moment of crisis and counter atack with charge.Even ai make this.

[Arvedui]

^^^^ wow this guys destroyed a perfectly reasonable thread and turned it into an argument ^^^^

[Galahad56]

^^^^ wow this guys destroyed a perfectly reasonable thread and turned it into an argument ^^^^

So lets start posting short reasonable notes on units and what needs changing. If you dont like someones opinion ignore or state your alternative.