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  1. #1

    Default kids will break stuff when they play

    I've watched this mod develop from its inception. Just as I did Lord of the Rings, Total War. But even more than LOTR TW, this mod has drawn a host of talented and passionate people to that purpose. Both in the artistic pits creating, and an extensive and ardent fan base.

    To the modders.
    You've created two things in the process -
    1. A beautiful living world . A world sort of faithful to the Tolkien legacy and canon, so that people can take a wider walk through ME (much more so than Battle for ME). Here, they can experience some challenges and explore possibilities within the framwork of a great game. And thereby become more immersed into "the Work of JRR". In fact, it is that immersion, that attracts most people.

    All in all, I really liked Lord of the Rings Total War, but I like Third Age better, because, visually, I find it more impressive, with better depth of skins, terrain, and more appropriate buildings. It adds to the “experience”.


    2. The arena. But there are the other curious sorts who do not simply like to idly walk through the woods and hills of middle earth, and are more prone to actively seek all possible avenues of encounter and challenge within the framework of the game. "Can two trolls beat a Mamulak? Can Aragorn whip two companies of Uruks, etc?" These people are like my son. While I like the stroll to see the trees, he will see what he can break.


    Recently, I built a tree house for my son and his friends. Rather … A huge one. A swiss family robinson affair, with suspended bridges and platforms in other trees. The main house itself had bunk beds and was twelve feet by fourteen feet in dimension. It had windows all around for light and view and took five months to construct.
    I built it to get them out of the house more, and encourage them to climb. It worked, ... sort of.

    The first thing they did was shoot the windows out little by little. The same windows which I had painstakinly crafted by hand. And ripped the door off. Then they stopped playing in the house, but rather loafed “on top” of the treehouse roof. When they did go inside they did it to defend the treehouse from attackers who now began using smoke grenades to smoke out the defenders, which stained the wood, of course.
    All of which irritated me, particulary the destruction of thirteen windows, and cutting the rope bridges. But regardless, every other Saturday the boys still come over, run around in the woods, climb the treehouse, cut the ropes, shoot out the remaining bits of plastic in the frames, and all in all, .... have a ball.

    So what I finallycame to realize through my thick head, is ... they are playing and climbing! They are not limited by MY imagination, or my work! They are having fun. And they're doing what I had hoped would happen, just not how I thought it would happen.
    And you know what? I'll build new windows later, and bridges with 3/8 inch cable, and they'll probably try to wreck them too. But it'll be tougher next time, more challenging and so on.

    It was the same when I bought them small soldiers and action figures. They painted 'em, cut 'em, modified 'em almost as soon as they got 'em in their hot little hands. And when they got older, some got blown up with firecrackers, and overall suffered ,... battle damage.


    That's what's happening here, with this mod. People are playing! They're like little kids experimenting with this and that. Who can't wait to get their hands on the greatest toys they can think of. And that .... is the greatest tribute you can receive! That's the mindset that's at work in the Sub Forums, by an large.

    IMO The mod forums should be broken up (sort of how it is now, but maybe more so) into the various factions:
    '
    a. A forum for those true to the mod developers original intentions. And changes should come only in line with that direction.

    b. A forum for the purists who would like to further shape the project strictly toward Tolkien Canon of literary work

    c. And possibly one clanted toward the movie version, whatever.

    d. But certainlythere should be one forum should be for the "what if's". The cage fighting forum of experimentation. And actually I believe a lot of healthy artisitic and visionary spin offs would occur (are occurring, in spades actually).
    The sub mods forum is doing this in general but it seems to be suffered with rather than heartily endorsed.

    All in all, the designers are certainly "Naturally insulted" and agrieved by this innate desire "to change" with their various works of art - the units/the combat strengths-weakness's/etc. Changing them, and indeed breaking them. Some sub mods are weak at best.
    But The units and game frame are are a kid's dream come true, particularly the dwarfs, and the Noldor. They're freakin works of art. But I still say this is the greatest tribute to the developers. That it inspires this much energy and involvement. Look at the number of posts. It's through the roof.


    Anyway, those are my thoughts about creativity and outcomes. So shoot me. Better yet have a bunch of kids.
    Last edited by FXR; May 29, 2009 at 10:03 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Great point... but wrong section...


  3. #3

    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    *clap* there can be no wrong section for this post.
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

  4. #4
    JuL14n's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Indeed. This is one of the most respectable posts I've read in this forum.

  5. #5

    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    I totally agree with your out look of this on any mod.Your right to say the creation of this mod has shown great inspiration and it has.To limit the possiblities would be a shame.The authors have shown great talent for their hard work and i'm sure they know how much a hit it has made.But it is their creation and would not be fair to abuse their work without their permission.Looking on the other side of the equation though their is alot of great ideas and talent in the forums that should be expressed.I'm sure everyone playing this mod will always keep the original work.But i believe that the sub modders should not be limited to show their new ideas or talent on all levels.They might even give new ideas and models to the original TA modders for future upgrades.Verity equals longevity.

  6. #6

    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    I respect you.

  7. #7
    Oddball_E8's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    wow... im very impressed by your post man... very insightful and thought through.

    and also very true.
    addicted modder... but crap at it

  8. #8
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    You have a very unique way of thinking, sir...I totally agree with you...

  9. #9
    Aeglos's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    First post - very well said.

  10. #10
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    yeah. good analysis.

  11. #11

    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    very impressive

  12. #12
    Mithrandir's Avatar Flame of Anor
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Excellent post, sir!
    I wholeheartedly agree!


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  13. #13

    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    You have my sword.

  14. #14
    Achilla's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Great read, Sir. You have picked the right section to post this, too. Highest time devs get some distance to their work and what people do with that. Common sense is your friend, 'copyright' only limits creativity.
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
    Ignorance is your shield, knowledge is your weapon.
    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


  15. #15
    MDT's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    A very interesting post!

    But if you want to criticize the "copyright" from KK and DG I can't understand what everybody complains about. They created it and it should be their right to say how their work can be changed as you could have protected your work, when the kids broke the first window, it's their decision. And the fact, that this forum exists shows already that they have nothing against fan modifications in general.
    And about gondorian units, as far as I understand KK their should be no problem if you use your OWN chainmail models to replace them ... (If they meet his high standarts he would perhaps even use them as standard models before armor upgrades, but I can only guess here...)

  16. #16
    Achilla's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Quote Originally Posted by MDT View Post
    A very interesting post!

    But if you want to criticize the "copyright" from KK and DG I can't understand what everybody complains about. They created it and it should be their right to say how their work can be changed as you could have protected your work, when the kids broke the first window, it's their decision. And the fact, that this forum exists shows already that they have nothing against fan modifications in general.
    And about gondorian units, as far as I understand KK their should be no problem if you use your OWN chainmail models to replace them ... (If they meet his high standarts he would perhaps even use them as standard models before armor upgrades, but I can only guess here...)
    Your point is valid. Thing is, I don't like extremes, either on one side or another. Middle ground is best.
    Man is but a shadow of his former self, encased in feverish delusions of grandeur.
    Ignorance is your shield, knowledge is your weapon.
    Heart without reason is stupid, reason without heart is blind.


  17. #17
    MDT's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Quote Originally Posted by Achilla View Post
    Your point is valid. Thing is, I don't like extremes, either on one side or another. Middle ground is best.
    But unfortunatly extremes are the only positions that can be defined clear and objective.

  18. #18
    Kiljaden's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Shimmler View Post
    You have my sword.
    And my porno collection!

    +rep to OP, I agree. Even if the forums don't get created, it's a good realization you have just imparted upon my brainmatter.

  19. #19

    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Very nicely said, FXR.

    I absolutely agree that playing around with stuff is very funny and often productive, and like your sons, everyone who downloaded this mod can do that for their personal use.
    However, imagine you would build this tree-house because you want to make a friend a gift, but before you have finally built it, your sons take the base of your tree-house, change it to their liking (which in this case means that they destroy it to their liking ) and present the gift to your friend before you can do.
    Wouldn't be very pleasing, or?

    Also, actually I don't think that we are limiting the sub-mods much with our restrictions. There are rarely any units that would be worth to include in the official mod and those who are, have all gained permission to be released for the public.
    Last edited by King Kong; May 30, 2009 at 08:02 AM.

    Winner of 'Favorite M2TW Mod' and 'Favorite M2TW Modder' Award 2007 & 2008

  20. #20
    Mithrandir's Avatar Flame of Anor
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    Default Re: kids will break stuff when they play

    Since you're here KK, what do you think about his suggestion to split the submod section?
    Quote Originally Posted by FXR View Post
    IMO The mod forums should be broken up (sort of how it is now, but maybe more so) into the various factions:
    '
    a. A forum for those true to the mod developers original intentions. And changes should come only in line with that direction.

    b. A forum for the purists who would like to further shape the project strictly toward Tolkien Canon of literary work

    c. And possibly one clanted toward the movie version, whatever.

    d. But certainlythere should be one forum should be for the "what if's". The cage fighting forum of experimentation. And actually I believe a lot of healthy artisitic and visionary spin offs would occur (are occurring, in spades actually).
    The sub mods forum is doing this in general but it seems to be suffered with rather than heartily endorsed.


    Under the patronage of
    Code_Knight

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