Having re-read celestialwarrior's great post on this thread I have decide to follow the Jurchen roster he presented as closely as possible.
So as I've had some time on my hands I've put together the concepts I'd like to use (which involved google searches in Russian, Korean, Japanese and Chinese !). I think I've just about seen every image on the web that depicts a Jurchen warrior, but feedback, comments or contributions are always appreciated. For fuller descriptions of these units refer to back to this post.
I will update this post regularly with textured models as I create them.
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Jin Dynasty Roster
Unit name: Alixi 阿里喜
Faction: Jin
Region: All Jin regions
Description: Mounted medium HA, recurve bow, sword, minimal light armour (possibly some round iron breast-guards/ sparse leather lamellar)
Tier: 2 Cavalry
Concept Art
Main Unit Design
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
As above, only some will wear fur hats. Good detail on the last pic for the waist-bands/accesories (a Han addition to Jurchen costume ?) there is also something made of fishskin, tho I can't make it out. The Wanyan Jurchen were big on fishing and hunting. Unlike the Khitan (who wore long tang sttly robes) the Jurchen will wear mid-length robes, split for riding astride, pantaloons and high boots.
Additional
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I have decided to go with the shaven head/two pigtail style look for all Jurchens, to distinguish them from Khitans (who have a sort of fringe) and other steppe tribes. There a reasonable amount of evidence to suggest this was their custom at the time, and some decent Southern paintings to attest to it. It's arguable whether these dudes below are Khitan or Jurchen, however I want to follow the colour scheme greys and whites, with a little turqoise/orange thrown in. These guys aren't steppe nomads, but yet they are not nobles either. Also follow the details (tiger-skin) for the quivers)
Unit name: Zhengjun 正军 ("Regulars")
Faction: Jin
Region: All Jin regions
Description: Heavy armoured cavalry (lamellar) on cataphracts , lances (Tiger lance), clubs/maces
Tier: 3 Cavalry
Concept Art
Main Unit Design
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
To distinguish these guys as 'lowest' (lol) of the heavy Jurchen cavalry, some will wear the same head gear as the Alixi (fur hats as well as the odd helmet with lamelar flaps) also some won't be fully covered (arms/legs) in lamellar,
Would use the maces as depicted in zhouyi's units
Additional
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This looks to be me like leather lamellar horse armour.
Unit name: Tiefutu 铁浮图 ("Iron Pagodas")
Faction: Jin
Region: All Jin regions
Description: Ultra heavy armoured cavalry (double lamellar) on cataphracts , lances (Tiger lance), swords
Tier: 4 Cavalry
Concept Art
Main Unit Design
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These guys I'd want to look quite crude but lethal, rather than go for something more ornate, like the elite Song sanwenjia armoured units.
So something along these lines: .
Obviously with two layers. Helmets with studs
Additional
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Horse armour would be metal, and would look the same as the above body armour (lamellar) and following the horse armour design for the Regulars
Tiger spears anyone ?
They originated from a type of Jurchen hunting spear that was used in Manchuria and Siberia to hunt the great Siberian Tiger, and most of the peoples that later would be united under the name "Manchu" were in fact Jurchen. The Jurchens were hunters pur sang that did not develop any agriculture until as late as the 16th century but instead relied mostly on hunting, gathering and the trade in animal derativates and ginseng to neighboring people that included Russians, Koreans and Chinese
Unit name: Zirongjun 紫茸军 ("Purple/Violet Luxuriant茸? Units")
Faction: Jin
Region: All provincial capitals (Zhongdu, Datong, Kaifeng, Linhuang, Liaoyang)
Description: Heavy HA, unarmoured horse. (same as Alixi horse) Bows, swords. Known for the purple ribbons on their armor.
Tier: 3 Cavalry
Concept Art
Main Unit Design
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Should use iron lamellar for armour
Additional
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Main concepts are too Mongol-looking, perhaps adopt Han elements (nice helmets) from Song design (see zhouyi's orig concept art)
Unit name: Hezha Longxiang Qibing 合扎龙翔骑兵 ("Hezha Soaring Dragon Cavalry")
Faction: Jin
Region: Zhongdu
Description: Doubles as Bodyguard unit. Heavy cavalry, metal-armoured cataphracts, lances, shields, bows.
Tier: 4 Cavalry
Concept Art
Main Unit Design
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Mixture of lamellar /sanwenjia armour, plumes, ornate stuff
Additional
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Same horse armour as Iron Buddhas.
Unit name: Hezha Hu Bubing 合扎虎步兵 ("Hezha Tiger Infantry")
Faction: Jin
Region: Zhongdu
Description: Heavy crossbow infantry. Crossbows (basic Song type), sword and shield (like Song Imp. Guard shields)
Tier: 4 Infantry
Concept Art
Main Unit Design
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Dismounted version of Hezha Soaring Dragon Cavalry with minor changes.
Additional
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tbc
Unit name: Jiujun 纠军 (Jiu Units)
Faction: Jin
Region: Liaoyang, Linhuang, Huining, Dading
Description: Elite tribal foot archer unit, lightly armored, bows, swords
Tier: 3 missle
Concept Art
Main Unit Design
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Basically a slightly better armoured version of the Alixi, however they will be Khitans, Xi, and Tatar/Zubu/Dadan represented in the Jiu Units. So one Jurchen, one Tatar, one Khitan and one Xi model. But all equippped with uniform weapons etc.
Jurchen general & captain concepts:
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Other random concepts:
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Last edited by Yelü Dashi; June 10, 2009 at 07:01 PM.
Re: Jin dynasty - Unit Previews & Roster Development
I hate to keep sounding like your dad/teacher but I don't think you've properly finished or sent me any of these models:
I know you send me an obj for the Korean Gae-Ma, but it didn't include different meshes (variation that we talked about with the helmets etc)
I know we are a pretty disorganised mod team (myself included) but I would rather you finish what you start, or send it to me to finish, than keep leaving a trail of half-done models.
Re: Jin dynasty - Unit Previews & Roster Development
Been a while since I've shown any progress on these so here's an update.
Had a bit of nightmare getting the horses moving and looking right (heavily Rusichi modified model, skeleton/animations, new skins etc)
I need to thank some folks over at the Mount and Blade mod forums, especially Damon and Kopcap (XIII century mod) who've allowed the usage of some of their awesome textures and models (lamellar armour and the odd helmet).
Alixi ("Auxillaries")
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Zhengjun ("Regulars")
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Tiefutu ("Iron Buddhas")
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Hezha Dragon Cavalry
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I still need to do the Zirongjun, the Imperial HA unit, listed above. But I am trying to figure out a way to distinguish them from the other models.Then I'll move on to the Han units.
Again, not much to go on to make them look particularly 'northern' (as opposed to Southern Han) but I'm sure come up with something.
Last edited by Yelü Dashi; November 08, 2009 at 05:17 PM.
Re: Jin dynasty - Unit Previews & Roster Development
amazing, though I do want to note that the Guo text your using is simplified chinese, that was developed only after 1949, the traditional way of writing it is 國 . (there are a lot of free code converters online that can translate this anyway.)
Also . I think they typically just wrote Jin on a big flag instead of Da Jin Guo. though I need more research to back that up.
1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....
Re: Jin dynasty - Unit Previews & Roster Development
Thanks guys.
RW - Yeah I sorta made that phrase up, completely forgot about the traditional character. I will amend it.
Wundai - the head thing is kinda noticable I suppose - I'll do my best to alter it.
Re: Jin dynasty - Unit Previews & Roster Development
Also, AFAIK, the concept of Guo in pre modern China is fairly thin, they usually just stress the dynasty names, so most flag would say for example.. 宋, and not 宋國 . the term Guo at first is to be seperated from 野 (aka those that live outside the cities) but that concept basically vanished by the Spring and Autumn period anyway. it was later used to distinguish the different levels of fiefdom in Zhou dynasty (up to the Han dynasty) but by this period that's long gone too. since every major state around is generally considered a Guo by now, they rarely stress that term.
1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....
Jin dynasty - Unit Previews & Roster Development
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Originally Posted by Yelü Dashi
