Female Generals in Westros

[Tywin Lannister]

I am wondering, is it possible to have female generals in this mod, by giving the female generals traits that make them un-marriageable and prevent them from inheriting? Asha Greyjoy, Obara Sand, Nymeria Sand and Sarella Sand definitely qualify as female generals, but as things stand right now, they were simply removed from the game.

(On a side note, I believe that it would make sense to have Tyene Sand as an assassin in Martell faction, judging from what we know of her she would certainly fit that part.)

[Darkstar]

It is possible but I'm not sure if you can make them unmarriagable through traits. The easiest way to guarantee they don't get married would just be to create a dead wife for each of them. It might look awkward on the family tree but would accomplish what we need to.

We haven't reviewed the family trees and generals yet but this is certainly something we will look at.

[Tywin Lannister]

The easiest way to guarantee they don't get married would just be to create a dead wife for each of them. It might look awkward on the family tree but would accomplish what we need to.

I don't think it would be a good option: it will be hard for me to suspend my disbelief when I will see Asha and Sand Snakes having dead wives on the family tree.

Is there, pehaps, a trait that make the game consider the general as married, even if he isn't, and therefore not send random marriage proposals to him?

[Darkstar]

I don't think it would be a good option: it will be hard for me to suspend my disbelief when I will see Asha and Sand Snakes having dead wives on the family tree.

Is there, pehaps, a trait that make the game consider the general as married, even if he isn't, and therefore not send random marriage proposals to him?

It can't be done through scripting or traits. The only other way to modify marriage would screw things up for male family members as well. Unfortunately if we want female generals we need to have dead wives as well. As far as suspending disbelief, maybe we could get creative with the name and portrait so it doesn't look like a wife?

[Tywin Lannister]

As far as suspending disbelief, maybe we could get creative with the name and portrait so it doesn't look like a wife?

Hm, if you could give them dead "husbands" (or, if fact, living ones), it would work, I suppose. I would have preferred if they were simply un-marriagable, but if there is no way to do it, "husbands" may be a good alternative.

By the way, is it possible to code for two generals to be married, or a "wife" must always be inactive?

[Darkstar]

Hm, if you could give them dead "husbands" (or, if fact, living ones), it would work, I suppose. I would have preferred if they were simply un-marriagable, but if there is no way to do it, "husbands" may be a good alternative.

By the way, is it possible to code for two generals to be married, or a "wife" must always be inactive?

Yeah husbands would work. I'd just need to double check the naming. The only issue with having live husbands is they could have children and the children would take the wife's name rather than the husbands.

I don't believe it's possible for two generals to be married.

[Rat-tail]

Seeing that the "female" generals are just "female" on image alone. The could still be married.

How about assigning the dead wives ... but modding those imagines of the dead wife to be unique dead husbands ?

Should be able to be done if you build the "wife" general then add to family tree and have that general killed off before the game starts ...

maybe

[Darkstar]

Again, the problem with female generals is not the images, it's the names. To have a general named "Asha Greyjoy" you need to add Asha to the list of male names for the Greyjoy faction. This means that there is a chance of future male children having female names.

[stormbringer951]

Their names MUST be in the name pool. Sorry

[Double A]

Why not just denying all adoptions/marriages for them?

[daddytorgo]

This might be one of those things where you just have it in the popup instructions at the beginning of the game, like they do in Third Age where they say "don't cheat" basically. Then it'd be simple to do. If we decide we want to go that way.

[Tywin Lannister]

The main problem is not marriage, the possible way around that was already found.

The main problem is this:

Another issue I found is that to add a character their name must be listed under "male" characters. in descr_names.txt. This means if we added Asha there is a good chance you'd see future male characters named Asha as well.

Even if player avoids adoptions/male children with female names, there is no way to make AI do the same, which will result in male AI generals with female names, which will look weird and out of place.

[daddytorgo]

aaaah. good point. *nods*

[Arthur Artorius]

Yeah... and Asha's not really one of those names like Pat or Sam =/

[Aurore]

I would very much like female generals. I am annoyed at the devs for not simply having an option to flag a female character as a 'general' instead of 'random bit of meat for breeding' as they have.

There were female generals even in the real world such as Joan of Arc, Boudica, Cartimandua, Aethelburgh, Thyra, Aethelfyd, Olga of Russia, Emma of Norfolk, the list is actually dozens long and covers history from celtic times through the whole of the middle ages. Sure they were a minority but they were there.

http://www.lothene.demon.co.uk/others/women.html

None of the mods have female generals as far as I know. Does the Third Age middle earth mod have them? Galadriel and Eowyn would be rather sad as wandering meatsacks just there to bear children if so.

Anyway if you have a way to add female generals, please do. It would make a refreshing change.

Aurore

[Chevalier IX]

There is actually a rather nice assortment of female models available from Rainyxp's mod.I believe they are being used for custom battles currently in Uanimes mod Eras total conquest if you would like to give them a look.

[stormbringer951]

Haven't we gone over the fact that there is no way to add female characters properly? Like a million times?

1) We could add a unique "Asha Greyjoy" or "Obara Sand" unit, which is untrainable. Then, you can have the female character models. But 'she' will never age, and will not be killed as long as her unit exists. Also, no traits.

2) Add them as normal characters. This makes them look exactly like other characters, we'd have to substitute in a load of female traits and things, or have them pre-married to a black square. Then we'd have to add their female names to the male general name pool for that faction, resulting in androgynous auto-generated general and captain names.

3) Include them as ancillaries. Requires less work than either, but has obvious flaws.

Take your pick. I'd personally not include them rather than have them in in an imperfect way, but if you really want them in, I'd take the ancillary choice myself...

[Aranistar]

Could you -hypothetically- do it by creating a faction which contains all female generals, place them next to the capital where they belong and let all of them be automatically bribed (or adopted) by the right faction on the first turn, thus destroying the "girl power" faction? Alternatively, how about letting them marry themselves? Can you create them as princesses in their own faction and make them marry themselves (in the form of a general from another faction) automatically on the first turn? That way they won't marry some random nobody, they keep their place in the family tree and you won't get "boys named Sue" in your faction. If you can't make them marry automatically, maybe you can kill them off automatically after the first turn, so you won't have to deal with a surviving all girl faction if the Martell AI refuses to incorporate the Sands in their family?

[stormbringer951]

We could, but then the general would still use your model and she would have random children. You can't force-kill characters as far as I know. And also, I don't think it's possible to force marriages either through the use of scripts.

[Vegas_Bear]

Give the female generals this trait,

;------------------------------------------
Trait Divorced
    Characters family
    Hidden
    AntiTraits Cuckold

    Level Divorced
        Description Divorced_desc
        EffectsDescription Divorced_effects_desc
        Threshold  1

{Divorced}Divorced
{Divorced_desc}DO NOT TRANSLATE - Hidden VnV to turn off marriage effects.
{Divorced_effects_desc}No Effects

Did some trial and errors w/ this and the trait doesn't work.