Can someone explain this? Religion and Violence

**Zuwxiv** · May 27, 2009, 12:18 AM

For those who don't know, this is a Google Trends graph, which shows the relative frequency of searches using the words 'violence' and 'religion.' Not only do both follow a strict yearly cycle, but they both have the same cycle.

At first, I just found the graph of 'violence,' and I had enough of a problem trying to explain why it has that strange cycle every year. But both of them having the same precise cycle? It's uncanny how similar the trends are, year to year - but really, what effects both of these?

I'm not trying to link religion and violence directly - just wondering if anyone can explain why people are interested in both topics seemingly at precisely the same ratio over time. This has been puzzling me for weeks.

**Gromovnik** · May 27, 2009, 02:45 AM

OMG!!! Religion is violence!
(is that the desired reaction?)

**Zuwxiv** · May 27, 2009, 02:55 AM

No, not at all. I'm not anti-religious at all. If I were, I would just assume religion=violence and not be interested.

But I know there's got to be some explanation. What causes people to be curious about religion? Is it the same thing that causes people to be interested in violence? That doesn't make any sense.

Unless interest in morality is some cross-cultural phenomenon that fades sharply in the summer but has several distinct peaks in the winter and one small fade in the late spring, every year, I really can't figure this out.

I figured maybe someone well versed in philosophy, statistics, or some other thought-related field might be able to shed some light on this extremely odd and slightly unnerving correlation. (Of course, any statistician worth his salt would reply the correlation does not imply causation.)

Also, seriously, I've been thinking about this for weeks. This is gnawing away at some tiny portion of my brain.

Edit: Thought I'd check out the morality thing.

WWUUUAAAAAAGGGHHHHHH WHY

Okay, so obviously there's something about religion, violence, morality, and ethics. But "crime" does not show the same trend; nor does "athiesm," so it's not about religion.

Culture shows the trend, and although society also exhibits it, it's to a much lesser degree. Both show a gradual lessening of the influence of the trend, unlike the above:

What's going on here?

And here's a really interesting one, since this seems directly related to EMM stuff: Do the frequency of EMM topics drop off during the summer / late winter holidays?

**The Dude** · May 27, 2009, 03:11 AM

People do less google searches in the summer and spring, and more in the winter and autumn periods. Also less during seasonal holidays.

**Zuwxiv** · May 27, 2009, 04:13 AM

But most things don't have that trend - look at music, which doesn't have seasonal spikes. (A tiny bit more towards winter holidays, but otherwise fairly steady.)

That trend seems unique to ethics, morality, violence, religion, and culture. (Possibly other related searches as well)

**~~Ummon~~** · May 27, 2009, 04:17 AM

http://math.arizona.edu/~ura/004/ber...hris/sync.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_of_chaos

Synchronization of chaos

Synchronization of chaos is a phenomenon that may occur when two, or more, chaotic oscillators are coupled, or when a chaotic oscillator drives another chaotic oscillator. Because of the butterfly effect, which causes the exponential divergence of the trajectories of two identical chaotic system started with nearly the same initial conditions, having two chaotic system evolving in synchrony might appear quite surprising. However, synchronization of coupled or driven chaotic oscillators is a phenomenon well established experimentally and reasonably understood theoretically.

It has been found that chaos synchronization is quite a rich phenomenon that may present a variety of forms. When two chaotic oscillators are considered, these include:

Identical synchronization. This is a straightforward form of synchronization that may occur when two identical chaotic oscillators are mutually coupled, or when one of them drives the other. If (x1,x2,,...,xn) and (x'1, x'2,...,x'n) denote the set of dynamical variables that describe the state of the first and second oscillator, respectively, it is said that identical synchronization occurs when there is a set of initial conditions [x1(0), x2(0),...,xn(0)], [x'1(0), x'2(0),...,x'n(0)] such that, denoting the time by t, |x'i(t)-xi((t)|→0, for i=1,2,...,n, when t→∞. That means that for time large enough the dynamics of the two oscillators verifies x'i(t)=xi(t), for i=1,2,...,n, in a good approximation. This is called the synchronized state in the sense of identical synchronization.

Generalized synchronization. This type of synchronization occurs mainly when the coupled chaotic oscillators are different, although it has also been reported between identical oscillators. Given the dynamical variables (x1,x2,,...,xn) and (y1,y2,,...,ym) that determine the state of the oscillators, generalized synchronization occurs when there is a functional, Φ, such that, after a transitory evolution from appropriate initial conditions, it is [y1(t), y2(t),...,ym(t)]=Φ[x1(t), x2(t),...,xn(t)]. This means that the dynamical state of one of the oscillators is completely determined by the state of the other. When the oscillators are mutually coupled this functional has to be invertible, if there is a drive-response configuration the drive determines the evolution of the response, and Φ does not need to be invertible. Identical synchronization is the particular case of generalized synchronization when Φ is the identity.

Phase synchronization. This form of synchronization, which occurs when the oscillators coupled are not identical, is partial in the sense that, in the synchronized state, the amplitudes of the oscillator remain unsynchronized, and only their phases evolve in synchrony. Observation of phase synchronization requires a previous definition of the phase of a chaotic oscillator. In many practical cases, it is possible to find a plane in phase space in which the projection of the trajectories of the oscillator follows a rotation around a well-defined center. If this is the case, the phase is defined by the angle, φ(t), described by the segment joining the center of rotation and the projection of the trajectory point onto the plane. In other cases it is still possible to define a phase by means of techniques provided by the theory of signal processing, such as the Hilbert transform. In any case, if φ1(t) and φ2(t) denote the phases of the two coupled oscillators, synchronization of the phase is given by the relation nφ1(t)=mφ2(t) with m and n whole numbers.

Anticipated and lag synchronization. In these cases the synchronized state is characterized by a time interval τ such that the dynamical variables of the oscillators, (x1,x2,,...,xn) and (x'1, x'2,...,x'n), are related by x'i(t)=xi(t+τ); this means that the dynamics of one of the oscillators follows, or anticipates, the dynamics of the other. Anticipated synchronization may occur between chaotic oscillators whose dynamics is described by delay differential equations, coupled in a drive-response configuration. In this case, the response anticipates de dynamics of the drive. Lag synchronization may occur when the strength of the coupling between phase-synchronized oscillators is increased.

Amplitude envelope synchronization. This is a mild form of synchronization that may appear between two weakly coupled chaotic oscillators. In this case, there is no correlation between phases nor amplitudes; instead, the oscillations of the two systems develop a periodic envelope that has the same frequency in the two systems. This has the same order of magnitude than the difference between the average frequencies of oscillation of the two chaotic oscillator. Often, amplitude envelope synchronization precedes phase synchronization in the sense that when the strength of the coupling between two amplitude envelope synchronized oscillators is increased, phase synchronization develops.

All these forms of synchronization share the property of asymptotic stability. This means that once the synchronized state has been reached, the effect of a small perturbation that destroys synchronization is rapidly damped, and synchronization is recovered again. Mathematically, asymptotic stability is characterized by a positive Lyapunov exponent of the system composed of the two oscillators, which becomes negative when chaotic synchronization is achieved.

Some chaotic systems allow even stronger control of chaos.

**Ahlerich** · May 27, 2009, 04:25 AM

in the first post it seems like december january and high summer are when the graphs are low. many people are in vacations.

**~~Ummon~~** · May 27, 2009, 04:31 AM

Seasonal work cycles are constraints in the chaotic system (different profiles of the energy landscape underlying it), they determine the general outline of the graph but not its local profile, which is clearly synced between the different items.

This happens likely because in the logosphere ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logosphere ) religion and violence and morals are interrelated objects, thus they are as well interacting attractors in local mind-brains. Local events in the news for example, probably suscitate bursts of searches as well as inner associations.

**basics** · May 27, 2009, 06:03 AM

" I'm not trying to link religion and violence directly - just wondering if anyone can explain why people are interested in both topics seemingly at precisely the same ratio over time. This has been puzzling me for weeks."

Zuwxiv,

Of course there is a corrolation between both because religion has nothing to do with God but in name only. So what is being judged is not born again Christianity, for who is it that can say for certain who is and who is not born again, but all them that are religious or not. Despite being religious they are all in the same basket.

That being the case it is obvious that the graphs will show a similarity. But if you could gather all the born again, regenerate, people of God, and then compare them with the others, the graph would be quite different. I mean most of the planet is religious but not many are born again so many that show on both graphs may well be the same people in many respects.

**Fiyenyaa** · May 27, 2009, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by basics

" I'm not trying to link religion and violence directly - just wondering if anyone can explain why people are interested in both topics seemingly at precisely the same ratio over time. This has been puzzling me for weeks."

Zuwxiv,

Of course there is a corrolation between both because religion has nothing to do with God but in name only. So what is being judged is not born again Christianity, for who is it that can say for certain who is and who is not born again, but all them that are religious or not. Despite being religious they are all in the same basket.

That being the case it is obvious that the graphs will show a similarity. But if you could gather all the born again, regenerate, people of God, and then compare them with the others, the graph would be quite different. I mean most of the planet is religious but not many are born again so many that show on both graphs may well be the same people in many respects.

I would love to see that survey. No offense, but I think that your confidence is unfounded. People are pretty much the same, and one specific flavour of Christianity isn't gonna change that.

**basics** · May 28, 2009, 08:40 AM

" I would love to see that survey. No offense, but I think that your confidence is unfounded. People are pretty much the same, and one specific flavour of Christianity isn't gonna change that."

Fiyenyaa,

So too would I. Nope, not unfounded at all, because the only violence that could come from a born again Christian, that is a genuine regenerate, is them that are in the military or police, having been told to stay in their professions. Other than that there is no reason for the Holy Ghost to encourage violence.

**Jams79** · May 28, 2009, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by basics

" I would love to see that survey. No offense, but I think that your confidence is unfounded. People are pretty much the same, and one specific flavour of Christianity isn't gonna change that."

Fiyenyaa,

So too would I. Nope, not unfounded at all, because the only violence that could come from a born again Christian, that is a genuine regenerate, is them that are in the military or police, having been told to stay in their professions. Other than that there is no reason for the Holy Ghost to encourage violence.

If you have no more evidence than your own suppositions to back up this claim then you are just making unfounded assertions.

**Fiyenyaa** · May 28, 2009, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by basics

Fiyenyaa,

So too would I. Nope, not unfounded at all, because the only violence that could come from a born again Christian, that is a genuine regenerate, is them that are in the military or police, having been told to stay in their professions. Other than that there is no reason for the Holy Ghost to encourage violence.

Damn, I forgot about that. Of course a normal, fallible human being who has taken up some sort of unusual religious philosophy would be physically incapable of being violent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollen_Stewart
Born-again, serving 3 life sentences for kidnapping charges.

I assume you'd say that anyone who says they are a born-again Christian and committed some sort of violent act "wasn't a proper born-again Christian".

**IrishHitman** · May 30, 2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by basics

Fiyenyaa,

So too would I. Nope, not unfounded at all, because the only violence that could come from a born again Christian, that is a genuine regenerate, is them that are in the military or police, having been told to stay in their professions. Other than that there is no reason for the Holy Ghost to encourage violence.

No, just legal oppression of people who are different.

**Manco** · May 27, 2009, 07:38 AM

I think a perhaps very simple explanation is that the terms religion and violence are often used in the same or similar context (I wouldn't be surprised to discover religious violence being one of the top 100 searches).

**Playfishpaste** · May 27, 2009, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Manco

I think a perhaps very simple explanation is that the terms religion and violence are often used in the same or similar context (I wouldn't be surprised to discover religious violence being one of the top 100 searches).

This. People often would type in "Violence in islamic religion" or "violent religions" or "top violent religions" or "violence in bibles of different religions". It's a buzz topic.

**~~Ummon~~** · May 28, 2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Playfishpaste

This. People often would type in "Violence in islamic religion" or "violent religions" or "top violent religions" or "violence in bibles of different religions". It's a buzz topic.

That wouldn't explain the synchrony, but only a correlation. Morals appears as equally synchronized. Of course regular incoming stimuli are part of the sync process.

**Imperator Romani** · May 27, 2009, 09:23 PM

On the bottom graph bottom of it...violence and religion aren't similar...but on the top of said graph I am really suprised. There is alot of violence because of religion though.