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  1. #1
    Julianus Flavius's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default What if...

    What would have happened if Julian had stayed alive longer? Would christianity become a footnote on history, a temporary fad? Would the empire have survived into the present day?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    What have the Romans ever done for us?? apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
    Some of my favourite quotes:
    "Your god has yet to prove himself more merciful than his predecessors" ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'
    "If you choose to do nothing, they will continue to do this again and again, until there is no-one left in the city, no people for this governement to govern"
    ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'

  2. #2

    Default Re: What if...

    I dont think that the empire would have done much. The reason julian went east was to try to unify the empire after a common enemy. So upon his return their may have been large revolts from the christian populations for their persecutions. Plus paganism in rome was weakning in the east and the higher position christians would not have taken julian and his lowering of thier high standing. But this is only a hypothosis because thier is no evidence this would have happened Because he died so early in his reign. Also he wasnt that good a general. Most his victories on the rhine could be credited more to his generals than to him and as we saw in the eastern campaign he wasnt as well prepared as he should have been even though some of his allies screwed him over by holding back their promised support. Plus i dont know if your saying this or not but you cant blame christianity for the fall of the west and infact i think if it wasnt for christianity the east would have fallen to the islamic invasion of the 7th century.
    Last edited by charles the hammer; May 26, 2009 at 10:29 AM.



  3. #3
    Julianus Flavius's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: What if...

    But he has 9 stars! Although I suppose that's just a game...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    What have the Romans ever done for us?? apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
    Some of my favourite quotes:
    "Your god has yet to prove himself more merciful than his predecessors" ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'
    "If you choose to do nothing, they will continue to do this again and again, until there is no-one left in the city, no people for this governement to govern"
    ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'

  4. #4
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: What if...

    IMHO another bloody civil war.

    The disastrous Persian campaign would have weakened his political position and his radical religious ideas endangered the inner peace of the Empire.

    Invasio Barbarorum: Ruina Roma Development Leader - Art made by Joar -Visit my Deviantart: http://gaiiten.deviantart.com/

  5. #5

    Default Re: What if...

    I have the gut feeling that Julian would have been assassinated had he survived and then the army would have raised probably Valentinian I to the purple anyway.
    I don't think Christianity would have been erased from the Empire, it was far too strong at this time, especially in Spain, Africa and the Middle Eastern provinces.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What if...

    Christianity would have survived the empire and acceptance and tolerance for paganism would have been Law. Julians successor would have no doubt been a pagan, and so forth and so forth.

    Having come back from an embarrassing defeat in the east Julian would have devoted the rest of his life to the sole purpose of punishing those around him that would dare threaten the greatness of his Rome. All would have been punished accordingly to there level of disobedience to a Pagan Empire.

    Anyone who believes that Julian was not a great tactician should go back to Julians time in Gaul. This is where he became the man and Emperor that history has written about.

    DHS
    "Today I saw a slave become more powerful than the Emperor of Rome"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7

    Default Re: What if...

    ya but it really wasnt julian in gaul who was the tactical genius. It was more his generals because as you saw in the east when it was all his decisions he made terrible decisions and was utterly crushed so i dont think you can call him a great general.



  8. #8
    -Traiano-'s Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: What if...

    Quote Originally Posted by charles the hammer View Post
    ya but it really wasnt julian in gaul who was the tactical genius. It was more his generals because as you saw in the east when it was all his decisions he made terrible decisions and was utterly crushed so i dont think you can call him a great general.
    Almost Every great general has been defeated at least once during his career, we all remember Julius Caesar and Octavian as great commanders that had great victories (Alesia/Actium) but they have been also defeated badly sometimes....Napoleon too was great tactician but lost the russian campaign...
    Julian's campaign against sassanid empire has certainly been a disaster but i'm doubtfull that if Julian would have not been killed in action maybe the campaign could finish in a different way...
    30BC: Ottaviano Augusto becomes the first Imperator, in his 44 years of principate he will bring to the empire peace and prosperity!
    70AD: Vespasiano is the winner of first great empire's civil war,rebuilding Roman world after the Nero's dark ages.
    98AD: Traiano becomes imperator after that the senateman Nerva adopted him,he will start a gold age for the empire getting it to biggest extension!! 117AD-180AD Adriano,Antonino Pio and Marco Aurelio administrate the empire during his richest and most pacific period, with their good administration Rome lives its golden age.
    193AD: Settimio Severo wins the civil war started after the death of Commodo starting the Severan dinasty, his heirs will not be as good as him. 252-285AD Rome lives the peak of III century's crisis,onli the emperor Aureliano will be able to reunite the empire breacked in 3 parts and the great reformer Diocleziano will give to Rome militar,politic and social cohesion after decades of caos. 325AD:Costantino rules alone over the empire and christianity is for the first time accepted by the imperial government.

  9. #9

    Default Re: What if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_horse_spirit View Post
    Christianity would have survived the empire and acceptance and tolerance for paganism would have been Law. Julians successor would have no doubt been a pagan, and so forth and so forth.

    Having come back from an embarrassing defeat in the east Julian would have devoted the rest of his life to the sole purpose of punishing those around him that would dare threaten the greatness of his Rome. All would have been punished accordingly to there level of disobedience to a Pagan Empire.

    Anyone who believes that Julian was not a great tactician should go back to Julians time in Gaul. This is where he became the man and Emperor that history has written about.

    DHS
    I have no doubt that the outcome of the Battle of Strasburg 357AD was in a large part influenced by Julian taking command of the Roman right wing cavalry and clibanarii who had begun to rout off the battle field. However, it was the fighting prowess of the auxilia in the front line, and the legiones in the second line that decided the battle, not Julian himself.
    I think too many historians heap much praise upon Julian based on his perceived successes in gaul, but gloss over the disasterous failure in the East.

  10. #10
    -Traiano-'s Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: What if...

    Anyway it's been a shame...through history romans had shown that they were able to march on Ctesiphon and win the persians....Traiano, Lucio Vero, Settimio Severo...have made great campaigns against those persians..on the other hand Marco Licinio Crasso, Alessandro Severo, Valeriano and Giuliano had been badly defeated....I don't know...it depends on several factors...the strengt of the empire, the generals, the weather...
    30BC: Ottaviano Augusto becomes the first Imperator, in his 44 years of principate he will bring to the empire peace and prosperity!
    70AD: Vespasiano is the winner of first great empire's civil war,rebuilding Roman world after the Nero's dark ages.
    98AD: Traiano becomes imperator after that the senateman Nerva adopted him,he will start a gold age for the empire getting it to biggest extension!! 117AD-180AD Adriano,Antonino Pio and Marco Aurelio administrate the empire during his richest and most pacific period, with their good administration Rome lives its golden age.
    193AD: Settimio Severo wins the civil war started after the death of Commodo starting the Severan dinasty, his heirs will not be as good as him. 252-285AD Rome lives the peak of III century's crisis,onli the emperor Aureliano will be able to reunite the empire breacked in 3 parts and the great reformer Diocleziano will give to Rome militar,politic and social cohesion after decades of caos. 325AD:Costantino rules alone over the empire and christianity is for the first time accepted by the imperial government.

  11. #11
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: What if...

    It is easy to understand when the Romans were able to conquer Ctesiphon.

    Any time they achieved that feat either Parthians or Sassanians had to deal with big, bad civil wars and there was no united front they had to fight.

    Julian had to face a united and very powerful Sassanian Empire.

    Invasio Barbarorum: Ruina Roma Development Leader - Art made by Joar -Visit my Deviantart: http://gaiiten.deviantart.com/

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