Truth, fact or opinion?

[Sebdeas]

After thinking for about religion and politics, I've come to a personal realisation that the truth might not always be the truth. This might be very cynical or nihilistic, but it is the truth (mine at least).

For instance, if someone is religious, than the existence of God and all the other things is their truth. Non theistic people might say it, but they can't proof it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. In politics the same situation appears. One country might claim the moral high ground, but the enemy will disagree.

A fact is something you have proof for and the truth is different.

[Alkarin]

correct

fact: there is no opinion needed. it is true

[Djûn]

The only truth is the realisation that we know no truth other than this.

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

Truth is something you believe in. I believed my dreams to be true, so they became true. I became Mr. Universe; I became a successful businessman. And even though some people say I still speak with a slight accent, I have reached the top of the acting profession. Soon I will reach the top of the political career.

[Imperator Romani]

Referring to Arnold Sw...?

[GuineaPig]

Whenever anyone uses the phrase "true for me", it usually means its false for most other people.

Truth is objective. It may be impossible to establish or determine, but there is truth. It's true that gravity occurs. It's true that we don't know exactly how it works. Newton's "truth" about gravity was false, and so is likely Einstein's. But just because we don't know the exact truth about it does not mean a number of different explanations can all be considered true.

[Who]

Whenever anyone uses the phrase "true for me", it usually means its false for most other people.

Truth is objective. It may be impossible to establish or determine, but there is truth. It's true that gravity occurs. It's true that we don't know exactly how it works. Newton's "truth" about gravity was false, and so is likely Einstein's. But just because we don't know the exact truth about it does not mean a number of different explanations can all be considered true.

Gravity is an observation by man. It is true for mostly all man. For someone in a coma gravity does not exist, but neither does time nor the newest clothing fad. Then again I've never been a coma so I can't say for sure...

[CtrlAltDe1337]

After thinking for about religion and politics, I've come to a personal realisation that the truth might not always be the truth. This might be very cynical or nihilistic, but it is the truth (mine at least).

For instance, if someone is religious, than the existence of God and all the other things is their truth. Non theistic people might say it, but they can't proof it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. In politics the same situation appears. One country might claim the moral high ground, but the enemy will disagree.

A fact is something you have proof for and the truth is different.

This makes no sense logically. If something is true, it really exists. That is the very definition of truth. It is, well, true. If religion/politician A says something, it doesn't matter if they believe it or not. If its true, then its true. If its not, then its not. It doesn't matter if someone thinks their opinions are true, it just matters if they are. I can think I can fly, but if I jump off a building, my belief won't matter. Just reality.

Now, it can be difficult to discover the truth in some areas, so we may not be able to discern the truth with 100% certainty, but that doesn't excuse us from realizing that the truth really exists. People have different opinions, but someone is right and someone is wrong (or they are both wrong).

[AdamWeishaupt]

.... that the truth might not always be the truth.

Truth theories is an interesting field because they can differ depending to the relative context of their application. We may under circumstances discern trueness, correctness, rightness, validity, regularity et al. under the title of truth theories.

A fact is something you have proof for and the truth is different.

Truth and fact can mean the same sometimes, as facts require knowledge to be recognized as facts, e.g. correct judgements and judgements can be subject to tests and corrections. Facts include therefore an element of "trueness".

For instance, if someone is religious, than the existence of God and all the other things is their truth. Non theistic people might say it, but they can't proof it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. In politics the same situation appears. One country might claim the moral high ground, but the enemy will disagree.

Religious "truths" are (normally) conceived as regulative truths that are backed up with some form of experience, e.g. a religious praxis, charity as a result of a specific ethic etc. They prove themselves through their pragmatic. Political "truths" are also practical "truths" but they require a much narrower set of ideals and (normally) those ideals are strongely systematized but they are regulative, too, and prove themselves through their pragmatic. Instrumental purposes of the use of "true" and "false" may be in politics more obvious than in relation to a religious praxis but in both cases the pragmatic as well as the theory are connected to the world they are set in in one or the other way and mostely more in than just one.

[Maverick]

After thinking for about religion and politics, I've come to a personal realisation that the truth might not always be the truth. This might be very cynical or nihilistic, but it is the truth (mine at least).

For instance, if someone is religious, than the existence of God and all the other things is their truth. Non theistic people might say it, but they can't proof it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. In politics the same situation appears. One country might claim the moral high ground, but the enemy will disagree.

A fact is something you have proof for and the truth is different.

k

[AdamWeishaupt]

You can dispute the valitity or the correctness of political or religious arguments. You can also thematize practical ideals and metaphors, e.g. historically or philosophically. Ideal conceptions and metaphors are more than opinions because they are submitted to objectivated standarts or transcend them.

[Ahlerich]

replace truth with reality and you discovered the old knowledge that truth lies in the eye of the beholder. there is more then one reality. reality is what you create for yourself based on your belief, environment and knowledge

a stone can be a ring on the water if you throw it in
the same stone can be a weapon if you hit somebody with it
and if you give it to somebody it becomes a gift

still its all the same stone

[AdamWeishaupt]

Yes, trueness is included but not necessarily identical with realities. Our knowledge in relation to something can be incomplete and still we may be able to come to testable and correct statements. Whether the stone is always the same we can leave open here. The reported stone and the measured stone often shift through time. Realities can be covered behind absences. That there are boundaries to human knowlegde, should not discourage from asking questions because that is the most important one when it comes to truths, facts and opinions. "Have the courage to make use of your own reason and mind!"

[Djûn]

replace truth with reality and you discovered the old knowledge that truth lies in the eye of the beholder. there is more then one reality. reality is what you create for yourself based on your belief, environment and knowledge

a stone can be a ring on the water if you throw it in
the same stone can be a weapon if you hit somebody with it
and if you give it to somebody it becomes a gift

still its all the same stone

I get what you're saying, but I'm almost certain that a subjective reality is a complete folly. Yes a stone can be a ring on the water, or a weapon or a gift, but if I give it to someone and say it's alive then that is an outright lie. Truth is objective, there is no other manner in which it can exist.

[Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh]

I think it is a post-modern trend to believe that there are not any absolute truths beyond the one that there are no absolute truths. I sideline this issue, like I do many others. It seems reasonable to deduce that, and following the 'enlightenment' of the 18th/19th centuries, where atheists showed their heads (read: Nietzsche) and questioned God's existence (read: reality) that the thought that there are no absolutes and that in the words of Sartre, we should create our own truth. It is reasonable, for reason may come with that conclusion but is the theory of no absolutes really a sensible way? Senses tell us that there are truths, that there is a smell that is unique to certain things, that gravity is the truth.

This brings us to the idea of the Matrix that Reality is non-existent, and that our senses are decieved and thus sensible is no longer reasonable. However is the reality any worse? If you recieve your fleshy steak and enjoy it in the matrix, is it not better than the gruel? This comes to an argument by Plato and Epicurus - Reason/Rationalism vs Hedonism.

In an ironic way, perhaps we should create our own truths to accept whether there are truths or not. If you make it that there are absolutes, and it is your truth, then what is there to say there isn't? And vice-versa.

[AdamWeishaupt]

Diego Rodríguez de Silva y Velázquez - Las Meninas, 1656

What do you recognize?

[Biggreenfellow]

After thinking for about religion and politics, I've come to a personal realisation that the truth might not always be the truth. This might be very cynical or nihilistic, but it is the truth (mine at least).

For instance, if someone is religious, than the existence of God and all the other things is their truth. Non theistic people might say it, but they can't proof it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. In politics the same situation appears. One country might claim the moral high ground, but the enemy will disagree.

A fact is something you have proof for and the truth is different.

truth (trth)n. pl. truths (trz, trths) 1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.

fact (fkt)n.1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2. a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.

Truth is a fact, and facts are the truth. You can have mistaken facts, so you can have mistaken truths.

Truth is like a religion: You believe in a truth, you deny that truth to exist, or you're not sure and wait with making up your mind till you've found more proof for either side of the argument.

[Who]

Truth is a fact, and facts are the truth. You can have mistaken facts, so you can have mistaken truths.

Truth is like a religion: You believe in a truth, you deny that truth to exist, or you're not sure and wait with making up your mind till you've found more proof for either side of the argument.

This post makes a good point, on how we are a function of what we can represent, such as words in our language. What if one person's definition of truth is different from that of the dictionary's? You might say it's in the dictionary and therefore 'truth' means what's written in that dictionary, that the given definition is what 'truth' really means, but that's only because you were taught that the 'true' meaning of any word is in the dictionary. Then your definition of 'true' does not really depend upon some universal known meaning, but rather a subjective term taught to you to mean something which is objective.......this is hurting my head.

[Wolfshead]

After thinking for about religion and politics, I've come to a personal realisation that the truth might not always be the truth. This might be very cynical or nihilistic, but it is the truth (mine at least).

For instance, if someone is religious, than the existence of God and all the other things is their truth. Non theistic people might say it, but they can't proof it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. In politics the same situation appears. One country might claim the moral high ground, but the enemy will disagree.

A fact is something you have proof for and the truth is different.

You have a point here, there is no such thing as 'truth'. Everyone has their own view on things, their own truth. Their is no real truth, there is only personal truth. Exactly as you say in religion, religious people believe the existence of God is true, and I don't. It's very hard to make up each others minds, because we both have our own truth. So, as I said, there is no truth, just like there is no 'reason'. People like to believe there is a reason for things, and that their lives have reason. Again, this is their truth, and might not be someone elses (like me). I see reason as a human invention, but that counts for many things. Anyway, I won't further bring up reason and nihilism, because that will stray from the subject.

[Biggreenfellow]

Agree with most of what you're saying, apart from the nihilistic approach. Your life can have as much reason as you want, it has nothing to do with believing. You create your own reason; if you deny any reason, and refuse to create your own, you risk growing up to bitterness, cynicism and negativity.