The Deal with hell....?

[sirfiggin]

OK, so, this isn't a very deep question, because I'm rather expecting answers that didn't need much thought. But how come people who pissed God off go to a place when they die, run by the guy who pissed off God the most, and God expects this chap to punish them forever, I mean, what is his deal, it's like

"Hey, dip****, remember me, the guy that put you down here, well, I don't like these people either, could you torture them for me?"

It MAKES NO SENSE! Could some theological genius try and iron this out for me? I don't expect to be impressed, but give it a shot, who knows?

[Biggreenfellow]

God works in mysterious ways?

[Visna]

In order to explain the concept of Hell, a fairly new one btw, there is no Hell in Judaism for example, you first have to believe in a soul. If you don't believe you have a soul, I can see why it doesn't make any sense.
As I understand it, Lucifer doesn't exactly run Hell like some kind of task master, but is himself punished.

[Daeger]

Lucifer is the maaaaan. He should let you sin in hell so you'd piss off god even more. I think that'd be cool.

[Khannis]

They didn't think about it when they made it up?

[Biggreenfellow]

They didn't think about it when they made it up?

I like my explanation better..

[Chaigidel]

well its a tad more layered than that but Ill give it a go at explanation.


1. Lucifer or Ha'Satan did not anger God the most; God LOVED him the most, he was the most favored of the sons of Fire.
2. The Throne of God is more than a Throne; it is the seat of the universe the foundation block of all existence, from it all things MUST unfold.
3. When the Ha'Satan sat upon the throne, he forced the universe into a corruption of his impurity, out from him; hell unfolded-- a place of No-God the first reflection.
4. For all unfolds from the throne, and the king is unimportant; any who sit here from Sunya Anatman to Adam Kadmon unfold the universe behind them
5. voids within voids, hell is a pocket of nothingness within the fabric, a false vessel, a broken vessel--- The cup of Emptiness.
6. all are saved, even the one who sits on the broken throne; all will be purified by the burning darkness
7. Ha'Satan is the face of God within the place of punishment, God in turn had to punish itself in order to purify the wicked ( god is satan, but satan is not god)
8. By Blade or Blood all who bring to darkess sing; a choir for the empty lord in his Domain; God My God take me Kneeling before the Throne.

[sirfiggin]

well its a tad more layered than that but Ill give it a go at explanation.


1. Lucifer or Ha'Satan did not anger God the most; God LOVED him the most, he was the most favored of the sons of Fire.
2. The Throne of God is more than a Throne; it is the seat of the universe the foundation block of all existence, from it all things MUST unfold.
3. When the Ha'Satan sat upon the throne, he forced the universe into a corruption of his impurity, out from him; hell unfolded-- a place of No-God the first reflection.
4. For all unfolds from the throne, and the king is unimportant; any who sit here from Sunya Anatman to Adam Kadmon unfold the universe behind them
5. voids within voids, hell is a pocket of nothingness within the fabric, a false vessel, a broken vessel--- The cup of Emptiness.
6. all are saved, even the one who sits on the broken throne; all will be purified by the burning darkness
7. Ha'Satan is the face of God within the place of punishment, God in turn had to punish itself in order to purify the wicked ( god is satan, but satan is not god)
8. By Blade or Blood all who bring to darkess sing; a choir for the empty lord in his Domain; God My God take me Kneeling before the Throne.

no offence but WHAT?

[Nazgûl Killer]

well its a tad more layered than that but Ill give it a go at explanation.


1. Lucifer or Ha'Satan did not anger God the most; God LOVED him the most, he was the most favored of the sons of Fire.
2. The Throne of God is more than a Throne; it is the seat of the universe the foundation block of all existence, from it all things MUST unfold.
3. When the Ha'Satan sat upon the throne, he forced the universe into a corruption of his impurity, out from him; hell unfolded-- a place of No-God the first reflection.
4. For all unfolds from the throne, and the king is unimportant; any who sit here from Sunya Anatman to Adam Kadmon unfold the universe behind them
5. voids within voids, hell is a pocket of nothingness within the fabric, a false vessel, a broken vessel--- The cup of Emptiness.
6. all are saved, even the one who sits on the broken throne; all will be purified by the burning darkness
7. Ha'Satan is the face of God within the place of punishment, God in turn had to punish itself in order to purify the wicked ( god is satan, but satan is not god)
8. By Blade or Blood all who bring to darkess sing; a choir for the empty lord in his Domain; God My God take me Kneeling before the Throne.

I highly object to calling Satan or Lucifer as "Ha'Satan", as previously stated, in Judaism, there is no Satan and there is no Hell, there are demons however, and "Ha'Satan" is Hebrew for The Satan, so calling him that is basically stating that Judaism is a religion that accepts the idea of Hell, it doesn't. At all.
Anyway, calling him "Ha'Satan" is just a way to sound a bit fancy and trying to make everyone believe what you are saying, no offense to you, but I must object to calling Lucifer that.
This belief in Hell exists in the New Testament, keep it out of the "Old Testament", or as other people call it, the Holy Bible.

[Chaigidel]

you must have misunderstood the explanation.

[Daeger]

you must have misunderstood the explanation.

How could the most evil being, right after god, not do something like that? To make gods own creations love Lucifer more than their maker. If you could do anything you want in hell, I would rather go there than go bow before that egomaniac facist that some people call god.

[Chaigidel]

either way you would be kneeling to god--- only a human can be an egomaniac or fascist -- you see because God is all things-- this includes the one known as the morning star.

you can call satan the first reflection or you can call it a puppet of redemption, either way it is only a result of God, and by Its Will Alone.

[Helm]

It's a place for bad people to go when they die. Though Christians think everyone is bad.

[Manco]

OK, so, this isn't a very deep question, because I'm rather expecting answers that didn't need much thought. But how come people who pissed God off go to a place when they die, run by the guy who pissed off God the most, and God expects this chap to punish them forever, I mean, what is his deal, it's like

"Hey, dip****, remember me, the guy that put you down here, well, I don't like these people either, could you torture them for me?"

It MAKES NO SENSE! Could some theological genius try and iron this out for me? I don't expect to be impressed, but give it a shot, who knows?

Lucifer and Satan aren't the same dude originally. Although these days they're pretty much thrown together

So I imagine Satan is the 'ruler' of hell, while Lucifer merely cast away into it.

But my Christian theology is extremely rusty, as in not having looked at it in 12 years.

[Old_Scratch]

So I imagine Satan is the 'ruler' of hell, while Lucifer merely cast away into it.

Lucifer is nobody, he's not even a character in the bible. There's no story about how he rebelled and was cast into hell before the creation of the universe in the bible either. That comes from two early Christian writers, apocryphal books, and popular fiction.

As for Satan, well he was just another of the "sons of god" that served Yahweh, like Michael, Gabriel. At some point though between the end of the OT and the gospels, Satan changed into an evil spirit that resides in an eternal fiery hell.

So it doesn't say anything about the circumstances about how he ended up there or how much power he has over hell, but it's clear that the NT Satan doesn't have to actually stay in hell since he and some other demons seem to always be roaming the earth tempting people and starting trouble.

[Imperator Romani]

Lucifer is nobody, he's not even a character in the bible. There's no story about how he rebelled and was cast into hell before the creation of the universe in the bible either. That comes from two early Christian writers, apocryphal books, and popular fiction.

As for Satan, well he was just another of the "sons of god" that served Yahweh, like Michael, Gabriel. At some point though between the end of the OT and the gospels, Satan changed into an evil spirit that resides in an eternal fiery hell.

So it doesn't say anything about the circumstances about how he ended up there or how much power he has over hell, but it's clear that the NT Satan doesn't have to actually stay in hell since he and some other demons seem to always be roaming the earth tempting people and starting trouble.

1st paragraph- He is. Tells briefly that he was thrown down, doesn't get detailed.

2nd- Everything's right besides area behind last comma. He's not in Hell now, he can actually still go to Heaven(book of Job proves this). He has free reign over Earth with God's supervision.

3rd- Doesn't have power over Hell. I think(that last word is important) that somewhere in the Bible it says the demons are on chains. I'm not sure tho.

[Old_Scratch]

1st paragraph- He is. Tells briefly that he was thrown down, doesn't get detailed.

Nope, Lucifer is in fact not a character in the bible. The 3rd century Christian scholar Origen proposed that the the morning star mentioned in Isaiah 14 is in fact Satan, but if you've read it it doesn't make the least amount of sense. It's clearly describing the king of Babylon. Even though it's not in the bible, the idea was popular nonetheless, and was immortalized in fictional works like The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost.

2nd- Everything's right besides area behind last comma. He's not in Hell now, he can actually still go to Heaven(book of Job proves this). He has free reign over Earth with God's supervision.

The Satan in Job is different from the modern Christian idea of Satan. He was still an angel or "son of god" in Job and served Yahweh as the accuser. I was referring to the NT temping of Jesus by Satan and the possessions by demons. None of these evil spirits seem to actually be confined to hell.

[S.L.I.G]

Yeah, Satan doesn't rule hell, Satan is exiled there, it is a punishment as much to him as it is anyone else.

[Manco]

Just did some checking on wiki, and although not the most reliable it says that Satan and Lucifer were already regarded the same in the century before Christianity even existed.

But Satan was originally the Accuser, that seems somewhat incompatible with Lucifer who was supposed to be the most loved one. The Accuser isn't really that loved, he's more an explanation of evil in a monotheistic religion and I find it hard to reconcile those two persona's

[Chaigidel]

no the accuser was the most loved fulfilling the function god required of him.