Diplomacy - What the...

[killerqueen33]

Can anyone tell me how to keep relations up with the good guys? I'm playing as the Silvan elves about 40 turns in and no matter how hard I try, about every 3 turns my relationships get worse with the Dwarves or Rohan or Dale. I have no standing armies in their territory and am regularly giving them map info and small amounts of cash, but I'm down to "Poor" with the Dwarves already. It's really frustrating. Any suggestions?

[Theseus1234]

i'm sure if you're playing on VH/VH then all of your relationships deteriorate more quickly...because that's supposed to be harder. try attacking the enemies of your allies and then you'll see a relations rise

[killerqueen33]

Thanks. Is that the only way? (I am on VH/VH btw)

[MasterBigAb]

Thanks. Is that the only way? (I am on VH/VH btw)

No, i think it's better, not to give thm little payment ant map info every few rounds, because that affects the relation only little or even no at all, it's better to give them lot's of money at one time, for example 10.000, that every 10-20 round, if you can and there shouldn't be too much problem (at least that's what i do, and my allliances are ok...

[cvo99]

i'm playing silvan elves on vh/vh, and i got alliances with all good countries except eriador and there all "very good". I don't do anything like giving them money or map info but i did take out ootm, maybe that did something.

[Theseus1234]

i'm playing silvan elves on vh/vh, and i got alliances with all good countries except eriador and there all "very good". I don't do anything like giving them money or map info but i did take out ootm, maybe that did something.

highly likely. the OoMM are at war with most of the northern factions (elves, dwarves, and eriador) so attacking them without being asked (not using the attack faction thing in diplomacy) is seen as a gesture of good will

[Saruman the white wizard]

Having a leader with high respect also helps improving your relations while a leader with fear makes your relations worse. You can make your leader more respectfull by releasing prisoners while fighting with him and by sieging cities until they surrender instead of attacking the city and by just let him govern a city and let others do the fighting. Assasinating makes him feared so you shouldn't do that to much.

[Vaul]

The best strategy is to be feared by your friends as well as foes

[killerqueen33]

OK a few things. A) I've attacked the OOtMM several times (5-6 in the last few turns) and NEVER gotten a bonus to relations with Dwarves, whom I know are at war with them. Do I have to siege a city to get the bonus? B) I just attacked a rebel town south of Mirkwood and once I took it, my relations deteriorated with Dale. Wtf? Does that even make sense? Can someone tell me why that might happen? Thanks in advance.

[Bela]

OK a few things. A) I've attacked the OOtMM several times (5-6 in the last few turns) and NEVER gotten a bonus to relations with Dwarves, whom I know are at war with them. Do I have to siege a city to get the bonus? B) I just attacked a rebel town south of Mirkwood and once I took it, my relations deteriorated with Dale. Wtf? Does that even make sense? Can someone tell me why that might happen? Thanks in advance.

A.) Are the dwarves in REAL battle with the OOtMM at the moment? If not, they will not be happy that you kill their enemies. Try occupying some orc settlements (best is Dain's Halls, the dwarves love it! take care of garrison script!) )and give them to the dwarves for free. Because of they goal is to capture the settlements in the hills, they will be very happy to that. (maybe the orcs will take it back and you can then re-occupy the town, having an extra settlement and better relation with the dwarves. Once you retake it, the dwarves will be extremely happy with you, and then you can give it to them again if your relations are going low again).
B.) Check Dale's victory conditions. I think they badly need that settlement. Try giving it to them for a reasonable price and they will be happy too. Those settlements do not worth to capture as easterlings will take it very soon (during their first invasion). Let Dale fight with them, you will have more time for the Ors and can help Dale (as a saviour for better diplomatic relations and also having time for army gathering while they suffer enemy's first strike) when they are getting into bad situation.

I made it this way and having Outstanding relations with most of my allies (except for High Elves.... hah, dwarves and men like me better than my own kind does!), also using them as first battle line (usually giving them settlements I know I can't hold - for free) against the enemy and they are quite happy for that!

[Bela]

You should also check the Silvan Elves Thread as there are also good ideas for using your neighbours.

[Muffer Nl]

using your neighbours.

You are soooooo kind to dale

[Skeleton Of The West]

If you guys are struggling so much to keep your alliances with the good factions, try using this mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=255238. It makes alliances between the good and evil and you can break alliance only with a diplomat.

I played with Dale while using this mod, and every 3-5 turns I get a relations inproves message for a couple of factions.

[Muffer Nl]

The unable to break alliance mod is already in 1.1

[Skeleton Of The West]

Oh well I did not know that.

So I guess there is nothing else for me to help here. With Dale I just fought Rhun and as I said before, my alliances were almost perfect all the time.

[evinmulligan]

What I did as Rohan was save Gondors ass by kicking mordors. Gondor had just annulond and pinnath gelin left and mordor had 2 full stacks ready to attack. I attacked Mordor took back all of gondor including cair andros, osgiliath E. and W. and henneth annun and gave it all to gondor. Now I have outstanding relations, but before i did that they were poor. It's annoying that VH difficulty makes relations decrease.

[Snipe_]

why dont try the submod for this...

it will make a strong alliances whit all the good guys

[killerqueen33]

@kisbelaim - Thanks for the input. I hadn't even thought about victory conditions. I'll look into handing that settlement over (for good compensation, of course ;-))

@others - It's not about keeping alliances (v1.1 already does that with included submod), it's about getting them in the first place. I'm having a hard time creating an alliance with the dwarves and there's no way I'm giving them Moria. Too much money up in there :-)

[gary0044187]

@others - It's not about keeping alliances (v1.1 already does that with included submod), it's about getting them in the first place. I'm having a hard time creating an alliance with the dwarves and there's no way I'm giving them Moria. Too much money up in there :-)

other than lots of money and settlements your boned then. Vanilla Third Age is alot like vanilla total war, even historical friendships don't last as nations are hard wired to go to war with each other and especially the player. at least it is not as bad as Empire wih its expansion penalty. There is a submod out though by ZZZZ, that makes good races more willing to be friends with each other and to negotiate for military access. They do that so that they can support each other. Try checking that one out. I like it, I have never actually seen a good nation go to war with another good nation.

[Bulvine]

If not Moria, how about something else? I had this problem with the elves of the sylvan persuasion as well until I gave the dwarves that little fort above Beorn the Beefsteak's house. Then they allied with me and i don't think my relations with them were ever less than goodness after that. Now if i can just get the silly little dwarven girls to stop eyeing my elven princes all will be well in the world.