View Poll Results: Which is your prefered model of representation?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Trusteeship

    3 23.08%
  • Mandate of the doctrine

    3 23.08%
  • descriptive repressenation

    7 53.85%
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: types of represenation

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Raglan's Avatar ~~~
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    earth, solar system, the universe.
    Posts
    17,377

    Default types of represenation

    in many liberal democracys there are debates about what is the best manner of representation - trusteeship, the doctrine of the mandate and descriptive representation are the most used models.

    i personally feel that trusteeship is the ideal - yet unsuitable at the moment (i live in UK)

    which models do you like and why?

    EDIT: i just realised not everyone will know the models, let me explain briefly

    Trusteeship
    basically where you vote allong ideological lines and your represntative then uses his/her 'supperior' knowledge and training to make informed choices on your behalf

    Doctrine of the mandate
    parties chooce policies and you vote for them and it is assumed that you are giving consent and support for those policies to be implemented - currently the system in the UK

    descriptive representation
    the politicians should represent those that vote for them, in idea's - they represent a cross-section of their constituincy (thus reforendoms and opinion polling is needed for this to be properly succesful)

    bare in mind i've perhaps over symplofied these and not explained any of the strengths or weaknesses
    Last edited by Raglan; May 24, 2009 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: types of represenation

    All of them should apply to some extent. For practical reasons we assume trusteeship because it would be impossible for an MP to represent their constituents in the manner describes as 'descriptive representation' - those constituents are rarely united in opinion.
    However, if and when the constituency is more or less united in opinion, then an MP should be willing to vote against the party whip if their constituents demand it.

    In practice, we tend to vote for parties more than individuals. I think individuals as 'trustees' should play a larger role in politics, at the expense of the dictatorship of the whips.

    Answer: Trustee first (which is linked to madate doctrine - we assume individuals within a party hold similar views), but the MP will probably have to be a 'descriptive representative' when popular opinion demands it.


  3. #3
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brentwood, Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: types of represenation

    My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it. People need somebody to watch over them. Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave. None of those models you mentioned are acceptable to me, they are for the weak. I believe in a strong and powerful leadership.

  4. #4
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Germany, Freiburg
    Posts
    8,270

    Default Re: types of represenation

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold Schwarzenegger View Post
    My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it. People need somebody to watch over them. Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave. None of those models you mentioned are acceptable to me, they are for the weak. I believe in a strong and powerful leadership.
    if you do this frequently you might need a shrink one day. like all the caesars and napoleons in closed institutions..

  5. #5

    Default Re: types of represenation

    Mix of all three is good...

    If I had to choose one, it would be Mandate of the Doctrine.

  6. #6

    Default Re: types of represenation

    Quote Originally Posted by LordRaglan View Post
    descriptive representation
    the politicians should represent those that vote for them, in idea's - they represent a cross-section of their constituincy (thus reforendoms and opinion polling is needed for this to be properly succesful)
    So long as you don't have a two party system, and fairly regular elections, doesn't the representative usually represent the ideas of those that elected them?

  7. #7

    Default Re: types of represenation

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperado † View Post
    So long as you don't have a two party system, and fairly regular elections, doesn't the representative usually represent the ideas of those that elected them?
    Assuming we're talking about the UK here (The OP is from a british guy, and this seems to draw a lot on Burke), we do have a two party system, and quite a lot of our MPs are elected with the support of less than half of the votes in their constituency, often a very low percentage of the electorate when you factor in how low turnout often is.
    For example, conservative-minded folk who live in South Wales are not represented by their MPs, because of the fact we have a 2 (debatable - perhaps 2 and a half) party system and a pluralist electoral system.
    The representative can never represent the ideas of their entire constituency, but in many cases in the UK the MP is voted for by less than half of the electorate.


  8. #8

    Default Re: types of represenation

    So descriptive representation means no parties?

  9. #9

    Default Re: types of represenation

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperado † View Post
    So descriptive representation means no parties?
    I've never heard the term before to be honest, but it seems to imply certainly a looser party system (less power to the whips certainly).


  10. #10
    Raglan's Avatar ~~~
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    earth, solar system, the universe.
    Posts
    17,377

    Default Re: types of represenation

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperado † View Post
    So descriptive representation means no parties?
    i'm not actually sure, i suppose in theory it does.

    i'm going to quote from a book i own - i've propably mentioned it before but it is a good book, Essentials of UK Politics by Andrew Heywood.

    Trusteeship

    Trusteeship is the traditional form of representation said to operate in UK politics. It is based on the idea that elected politicians should not act as delegates but as trustees. Truestees act on behalf of others, using their superiour knowledge, better education or greater experience. This form of representation is sometimes called 'Burkean representation', as its classic expresssionwas found in a speech by Edmund Burke (1729-97) gave to the electors of Bristol in 1774. Burke declared that 'Your representative owes you, not his industry alone, but his judgement and he betrays, instead of serving you,if he sacrifices it to your opinion'. In other words, represenatives should think for themselves and use their own judgement because the of people may not know their own best interests. Until the 1950s, constitutional theory in the UK (despite changing political practice) held that MPs were Burkean representatives.
    However, the idea of trusteeship has also attracted servere criticism:
    • Allowing politicians to think for themselves creates a 'gap' between the views of ordinary citizens and the views of their representatives. This could mean that representatives act in their own interests, or in the interests of people like themselves (middle-class males, on the whole), rather than in the interests of the mass of the people.


    • The trusteeship model is largly out of date. Since the development of the party system in the late 19th century, the scope MPs have had to think and act on the basis of their own 'mature judgement' has been very limited. Burkean represenation is now only applicable in cases such as 'free votes', or backbench revolts.

    The doctrine of the mandate
    The doctrine of the mandate is the most influential theory of representationin modern politics. It is largely based on the idea that, in winningan election, a party gains a 'popular' mandate that authories it to carry out the policies on which it fought the election. These are the policies that are contained in election manifestos. This implies that it is the party, rather than individual politicians, that carries out representation. If this is the case, the doctrine of the mandate model provides a clear justification for party unity and party disipline. In effect, politicians serve their constituents not by thinking for themselves, but by remaining loyal to their party and its policies. This leads to what can be called 'mandate democracy'. The strength of the mandate docterine is that it takes account of the undoubted importance in modern politics of party labels and party policies. In UK elections, most voters on most occasions vote for a party and give little or no attention to the strengths or weaknesses of individual candidates.
    However, the doctrine of the mandate has also been critiszed:

    • It is based on a highly questionable model of voting behaviour. There is little evidence that voters vote 'rationally', choosing between parties on the basis of their manifesto commitments. A variety of 'non-rational' factors affect how people vote.
    • Even if voters are influenced by policies, a vote is unlikely to indicate support for its entire manifesto, meaning that the doctrine of the mandate is, at best, a very blunt weapon.
    • Their is no way of forcing governments, once elected, to carry out their manifesto commitments. Manifestos often include 'vote-winning' policies that proves to be dificult in practice implement.
    • It is unclear who the mandate falls to: the party or the prime minister. There has been a growing tendancy for prime ministers to claim a 'personal mandate', on the basis of their role in leading the party to power. However, the idea of a personal mandate may simply allow prime ministers to act however they wish.


    Descriptive representation
    Descriptive representation is based on the idea that representatives should typify or resemble the group they claim to represent. This notion is embodied in the idea of a 'representative cross-section', as used by market researchers and opinion pollsters. By this standard, a representative government would constitute a microcosm of the larger society, containing members drawn from all groups and sections in society (in terms of social class, gender, religion, ethanicity, age, and so on), and in numbers that are proportional to the size of the groups in society at large. By this standard, there are signifiacant concerns about the quality of representation across the political system, steming in particular from the 'under-representation' of groups such as women, the working class and ethnic minorities. This certainly applies to Parliament, but also to the senior judicary. The basis for this kind of representation is that it is necessary for people share the experiences of a particular group in order to be fully able to identify with its interests. They must have 'walked in their shoes'.
    However, concerns have also been expressed about the value of descriptive representation:

    • If all represntatives simply advance the interests of the groups from which they come, representation becomes exclusive or narrow, with no one being able to defend the commen good or advance a broader public interest.
    • A government that is a microcosm of society would reflect the society's weaknesses as well as its strengths. What would be the advantage, for example, of government resembling society if the majority of the population are apathetic, ill-informed and poorly educated?
    • It is difficult to see how decriptive representation can be reconciled with electoral choice. For example, the Labour Party's attempt to boost female representation in Parliament through all-women shortlists of Parliamentary candidates was declared illegal under equal opportunities legislation

  11. #11

    Default Re: types of represenation

    None of them are that great.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •