Your Idea of a Beforelife

[Helm]

Ah no wait a minute there's no such thing (unless you're a Hindu/Buddhist), so why think there will be something that comes after life? Why couldn't the non-existence deal work equally well both ways?

[Djûn]

Indeed, there is a perhaps-infinite number of beforelives which are in themselves simply the afterlife of the life before it.

[mightyfenrir]

Indeed, there is a perhaps-infinite number of beforelives which are in themselves simply the afterlife of the life before it.

or you could believe the god and soul thing, but where does god keep pulling these souls out of? SHouldn't he be running out sometime soon? I like reincarnation myself.

[Djûn]

or you could believe the god and soul thing, but where does god keep pulling these souls out of? SHouldn't he be running out sometime soon? I like reincarnation myself.

What I had written is the belief of reincarnation

If you want to apply it to God, then attempting to question the limits of an omnipotent being is quite a task to say the least.

[mightyfenrir]

What I had written is the belief of reincarnation

If you want to apply it to God, then attempting to question the limits of an omnipotent being is quite a task to say the least.

I hadn't seen yours before actually

[Desperado †]

Being a person comes from our memories and future aspirations. If you cannot remmember something, was I really that person? Hence, was it really my beforelife?

[Lord de Lyonesse]

Being a person comes from our memories and future aspirations. If you cannot remmember something, was I really that person? Hence, was it really my beforelife?

De Ja Vu?

[Chaigidel]

a lack of clear memory of all the lives you have passed through is one of the rare gifts of the universe; otherwise you might think you were in hell

[Djûn]

a lack of clear memory of all the lives you have passed through is one of the rare gifts of the universe; otherwise you might think you were in hell

Indeed, to remember everything is to lose one's sanity.

One thing I like about Buddhism is that is a hell but only the person you're reborn as goes there. They will there wondering what the heck they're being punished for.

Assuming one is reborn as a human, I believe that it is the atman which is punished - that which holds the innate 'buddha-knowledge' as it were.

[Helm]

One thing I like about Buddhism is that is a hell but only the person you're reborn as goes there. They will there wondering what the heck they're being punished for.

[Helm]

I can't help but think that if you end up journeying into an afterlife as an immortal soul then does kind of defeat the idea. I thought it was meant to be more an eternal cycle of renewal.

[Chaigidel]

more than renewal , it must be refinement-- due to the limited amount of time this universe has to exist, I think refining has something to do with the process if it does indeed occur.

but refined for what? who can be sure? perhaps so that the universe can actually begin in the first place

[Helm]

more than renewal , it must be refinement-- due to the limited amount of time this universe has to exist, I think refining has something to do with the process if it does indeed occur.

but refined for what? who can be sure? perhaps so that the universe can actually begin in the first place

In Buddhism there are an infinite number of dimensions/universes people can be reborn into though, explains why there's an infinite number of souls/atmans or whatever you want to call them around.

[AdamWeishaupt]

Connected to the title but not necessarily to the ongoing discussion:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...canic_gas.html

Volcanoes May Have Sparked Life on Earth, Study Says

John Roach
for National Geographic News

October 7, 2004


Before life evolved on Earth, most scientists believe that amino acids—molecules that are the basic building blocks of life—were first formed via interactions on Earth or brought to it via collisions with comets and meteorites. "But how did [the amino acids] form peptides [which are necessary for living cells]? What is the condensing agent?" said Reza Ghadiri, a molecular chemist at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California. "That is a major problem."

Peptides are chains of amino acids. They form the proteins that are the basis of living cells. Scientists have had little success in demonstrating a plausible chemical reaction that could have formed peptides on Earth before life existed—the so-called pre-biotic period. In the absence of a plausible chemical reaction, scientists say life could not have evolved via chemical means.
Reporting in tomorrow's issue of the journal Science, Ghadiri and his colleagues demonstrate that a simple volcanic gas, carbonyl sulfide (COS), helps free-floating amino acids to form peptides. According to Ghadiri, this reaction occurs under a variety of conditions that may have been present on Earth before life evolved. Metal ions, such as iron and lead, and other chemicals intensified the reaction.
"Because there are several ways to do it, it bodes well for pre-biotic conditions," Ghadiri said. Norman Pace, a molecular biologist and expert on early life at the University of Colorado at Boulder, said the finding is of little surprise. "All kinds of organic chemistry goes on in volcanic exudates [openings]. Put that volcano on the seafloor [where most volcanism is] and things get even more complex and little explored," he said.

Volcanic Life Origin? Ghadiri and colleagues Luke Leman, also at Scripps Research Institute, and Leslie Orgel of the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in San Diego, California, embarked on this study as an inquiry to life's origins. Their discovery could be a missing link. "We can only speculate," Ghadiri said. "But COS is now shown to be a useful and chemically feasible condensing agent."
The authors suggest that since COS decomposes relatively quickly on a geological timescale, it is unlikely to have accumulated to significant concentrations in the atmosphere.
Rather, the authors speculate that the volcanic gas would have influenced amino acids close to sources such as hydrothermal vents on the seafloor, forming peptide chains that would chemically stick to nearby rocks and continue to lengthen. According to Pace, it is incorrect to infer from the study that life originated at volcanoes. However, Ghadiri said: "It puts the whole idea of pre-biotic speculation on sure footing. It's something that could have happened."

[handsome pete]

@ jams

You can't have an infinite anything if you can't have zero.

i think your referring to the "real numbers". which do not contain infinitesimals. however it has been shown that this is purely a relative choice, since it was discovered in the 21st century that seemingly all of mathematics can be re understood using infinitesimals.

interestingly enough, in the beginning, Newton and Leibniz did use infinitesimals. but it was a bishop who suggested that this should be considered incorrect.

i.e. mathematics has not disproved the possibility of an inward infinity

[handsome pete]

if there is an afterlife and this indicates that there was probably a before life.

then it seems sensible, that the after life will have no smaller or greater probability of being better than the present life.

[Djûn]

It is an eternal cycle of rebirth, but the rebirth is not necessarily instantaneous, nor is it necessarily a 'soul' in the Christian sense, more of a collection of aggregate energies - at least from my reasoning

[MaximiIian]

It is an eternal cycle of rebirth, but the rebirth is not necessarily instantaneous, nor is it necessarily a 'soul' in the Christian sense, more of a collection of aggregate energies - at least from my reasoning

This is similar to my view of reincarnation, but as a polytheist, my view of it is probably different than the conventional Buddhist idea of reincarnation.
I see it as an eternal cycle, but the time between rebirth isn't necessarily the same and is rarely instantaneous, as you said. I believe there is some time between one experience/life and the next for one's soul, which differers depending on the immediate experience/life said soul had gone through, through some unknown mechanism. I believe that period between experiences/lives is spent in the direct presence of and unity with the gods.

Surely for reincarnation to actually function the population must remain constant.

Not necessarily. This assumes the number of souls is constant as well.
Who's the say new ones aren't made to keep up with population growth?

[Djûn]

This is similar to my view of reincarnation, but as a polytheist, my view of it is probably different than the conventional Buddhist idea of reincarnation.
I see it as an eternal cycle, but the time between rebirth isn't necessarily the same and is rarely instantaneous, as you said. I believe there is some time between one experience/life and the next for one's soul, which differers depending on the immediate experience/life said soul had gone through, through some unknown mechanism. I believe that period between experiences/lives is spent in the direct presence of and unity with the gods.

We seem to have very similar views indeed then, Maximilian ^.^

Where'd the new ones come from then? If new souls are being created all the time then why bother reincarnating the old ones when the new guy hasn't had a go yet.

What is this implied force which decides the time and place of incarnation for any atman? Why does it have discretion over 'who' (used in such a loose sense it can barely qualify as the word 'who') gets "a go"?

[Jams79]

What is this implied force which decides the time and place of incarnation for any atman? Why does it have discretion over 'who' (used in such a loose sense it can barely qualify as the word 'who') gets "a go"?

For there to be an action there must be a force.