Don't ask Don't tell.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

All Americans are familiar with the Federal 'Don't ask, Don't tell' law. This effectively bars anyone who is openly gay from serving in the United States military as it is said that they would constitute a threat to Morale, Military discipline and Unit cohesion. It is up to debate just how Soldiers would react to gay's openly serving in the military would effect it's effectiveness, or the temperament of our service men and women. But there is still one question. Why should the military, or any federal institution be allowed it's specific discrimination, discrimination which is out of step of the American people and nation ?

The first thought is that the Military performs a special duty, the safety of American livelihood, statehood, and freedom. But can you claim to defend freedom, when you strip away the freedom for those within your own ranks the right to their own sexual preference ? If the military is the protector of American values, how can it act as an enclave from our own standards ? Labor law's in this country prevent discrimination against Gay's for employment. Similarly, employees already working who come out cannot be fired simply because they are gay. We would not allow a gay teacher to be removed, we would be outraged by it. A public servant removed from a public institution simply because of their sexual orientation is inexcusable in one case, just as in the case of the Military. The Military has no special privilege to deny fundamental rights to American citizens serving in any Branch of America's armed forces. The Military is a tool of the state, and the sole purpose of the state is to represent the American people and ensure it's well-being and prosperity. The Armed Forces of the United States despite their most honored of service, does not earn itself the right to go against Human rights, the standards of our federal government, public institutions and the American people.

[Alkarin]

i believe all militaries defy the law of the country for efficiency. same thing with a socialist country having a military with someone in charge. its just the way the military has always been.

[Sidmen]

The US military operates outside the rest of our nations laws. They are deprived of their right to free speach, trial by jury, and most other of our 'god given' rights. Why should labor discrimination be any different? (And why would you focus on it instead of, say, women in the military)

[CtrlAltDe1337]

All Americans are familiar with the Federal 'Don't ask, Don't tell' law. This effectively bars anyone who is openly gay from serving in the United States military as it is said that they would constitute a threat to Morale, Military discipline and Unit cohesion. It is up to debate just how Soldiers would react to gay's openly serving in the military would effect it's effectiveness, or the temperament of our service men and women. But there is still one question. Why should the military, or any federal institution be allowed it's specific discrimination, discrimination which is out of step of the American people and nation ?

Can you imagine being in a foxhole and some gay guy looking you over? Or in the showers? They would get clobbered by their unit (and I bet they do already) if they are your usual red-blooded Americans. It would be awful for morale to let openly gay people in.

Maybe they could throw all the gay men and straight women together in a unit and solve the problem that way, though

[Fluttershy]

Can you imagine being in a foxhole and some gay guy looking you over? Or in the showers? They would get clobbered by their unit (and I bet they do already) if they are your usual red-blooded Americans. It would be awful for morale to let openly gay people in.

Maybe they could throw all the gay men and straight women together in a unit and solve the problem that way, though

If gay men got to be in units with alot of women... youd see an awful lot of regular soldiers "coming out of the closet" to serve in that unit

[Admiral Piett]

I think Ron Paul said something about the issue. He said why should homosexual behavior be treated differently from heterosexual behavior? There shouldn't be any sexual behavior on bases or on duty at all. If that is enforced and upheld, there shouldn't be any problem with allowing gays to be open in the military. Hell, look at the Greeks. They were pretty efficient fighting machines.

[Viking Prince]

I think Ron Paul said something about the issue. He said why should homosexual behavior be treated differently from heterosexual behavior? There shouldn't be any sexual behavior on bases or on duty at all. If that is enforced and upheld, there shouldn't be any problem with allowing gays to be open in the military. Hell, look at the Greeks. They were pretty efficient fighting machines.

Don't ask, don't tell works just fine. I would also like to see it to apply to everyone rather than to no one. There are good reasons why dating of coworkers can be a problem. There are reasons why these issues are strongly discouraged in many private firms. On company time you should be limited to doing company business. On private time in private places, it is your business.

[Captain Jin]

There shouldn't be any sexual behavior on bases or on duty at all. If that is enforced and upheld, there shouldn't be any problem with allowing gays to be open in the military. Hell, look at the Greeks. They were pretty efficient fighting machines.

Well guess what? That's not enforced or upheld at all. If you get busted then you get busted, but most people are still screwing around with one another even though fraternization isn't allowed. Take for instance Iraq where it's not supposed to happen at all, yet the commisary still sells condoms at large bases.

I know why I don't want to see it go away, simply because it adds another 'minority' to the military and then we have more of the bs equal opportunity crap they shove down our throats already. I have to watch my mouth around women in the military already, I don't want to have to be held accountable or being punished because I say "That is gay" and a gay guy takes offense to it. THat's what everyone fails to realize, in real life you can clamor on all you want about saying that's gay or using the word how you want and if a gay person doesn't like it too bad for them. In the military the military will make sure that doesn't happen, thus making me watch what I say all the time. is already a trouble word that can be used to destroy you by a female if she wanted.

[Lord of Lost Socks]

I think it's funny how torture is kosher, being gay isn't.

[Captain Jin]

I think it's funny how torture is kosher, being gay isn't.

Torture isn't kosher either. Might want to learn a thing or two.

[Lord of Lost Socks]

Torture isn't kosher either. Might want to learn a thing or two.

well the US military didn't mind torturing the prisoners. And the US media was more concerned over US admitting that they torture, than the fact that they torture.

[Yorkshireman]

That was the best thing about the Royal Marines, women are'nt allowed in.

[Captain Jin]

That was the best thing about the Royal Marines, women are'nt allowed in.

Yeah, and you guys are straight up combat arms. Sometimes I wish I was an RM .

[Pious Agnost]

I've never understood 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'.

If one was simply found out to be gay, don't know how, but they had no record of 'advancing on' other soldiers e.t.c.

Would they be kicked out?

[Captain Jin]

I've never understood 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'.

If one was simply found out to be gay, don't know how, but they had no record of 'advancing on' other soldiers e.t.c.

Would they be kicked out?

Depends. There are actually openly gay members in the US military and their commanders don't care so no one pursues any type of charges as it doesn't have any issues in the particular job. I think in the end it's to protect and prevent people from being victimized by bigoted folks.

Or maybe:

[Pious Agnost]

I see

I just love how the general dosen't smile or anything when he says seven

[Visna]

That was the best thing about the Royal Marines, women are'nt allowed in.

Really?
I seem to recall a news story about this woman who passed that training course thing you guys have?
Not sure if she was in, or she just did it to stress a point or something, though....

[Yorkshireman]

Really?
I seem to recall a news story about this woman who passed that training course thing you guys have?
Not sure if she was in, or she just did it to stress a point or something, though....

Blimey, you've got a good memory!

I think that was what they call the "All arms Commando course." The Royal Marines have several small units attached to them, Engineers, Artillery, medical etc. Volunteers take this short 8 weeks course to be able to be deployed alongside marines. Women can't join the Royal Marines itself, we do (or I did!) 9 months training and its a purely combat unit. Women are'nt allowed to serve in UK combat units yet. Though this has'nt stopped at least 2, I think, women soldiers being killed in Iraq.

This is who you are talking about.

The first woman to win a prized Royal Marines' green beret says she was "absolutely awestruck" when she realised she had achieved her ambition.


After two failed attempts, Captain Philippa Tattersall overcame physical and mental challenges to make it third time lucky.

Captain Tattersall, from Tarland in Aberdeenshire, passed the nine-week all-arms commando course, widely regarded as one of the toughest in the world.

She said: "It's still sinking in I think, it's been a long hard struggle. It's certainly a good feeling now."

However, her feat will not see her involved in hostilities because of the Ministry of Defence's ban on women being in the front line.

She will only be able to work in 3 Commando Brigade performing combat support or combat service support

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2017213.stm

[Captain Jin]

Really?
I seem to recall a news story about this woman who passed that training course thing you guys have?
Not sure if she was in, or she just did it to stress a point or something, though....

Royal Marine training is arguably some of the most difficult on the planet. I dare say that if a healthy number of US Marines were to go through the same thing that the RMs consider 'basic' training many would not make it.

I actually love the model of the Royal Marines as an effective fighting force. Small, tightly knit, and very highly trained. We don't have that in the USMC because our Marine Corps is larger than the entire British Army, at 202,000 or so. Personally, I'd like to see the USMC downsized (not to the size of the RM) and focus more on combat arms and such rather than branching out with so much service and support as the Corps has done over the past few decades.

well the US military didn't mind torturing the prisoners.

That wasn't the US military. It was seven undisciplined idiots who were kicked out of the Army and/or did time in prison. The US Military doesn't encourage, or support torture, those members who engage upon it do so under their own foolishness.

[Visna]

Can you imagine being in a foxhole and some gay guy looking you over? Or in the showers? They would get clobbered by their unit (and I bet they do already) if they are your usual red-blooded Americans. It would be awful for morale to let openly gay people in.

Maybe it would be good for morale? Instead of getting scared that a gay man looks at you, take it as a compliment. Many of them have great taste in men.

Royal Marine training is arguably some of the most difficult on the planet. I dare say that if a healthy number of US Marines were to go through the same thing that the RMs consider 'basic' training many would not make it.

Just goes to show that some women have what it takes as well...

Nah, when it comes to women serving in the front lines I'm kinda undecided myself. Normally I would be opposed, but then when I hear stories like this one, or about the woman who was with the Danish Team, errr, 2 (I think) in Afghanistan, my feminist side can get the upperhand in me. The British fighting alongside the Danes even called her Combat Barbie.
I don't get the gayscare, though. Oh well, at least it's not rigorously enforced, guess that will have to do.