Diplomacy?

[4th Regiment]

I must say this. Faction will not accept piece, until you almost destroy it. In comparison with SS - there if you win the major victory, killing big part of your foe’s army (you do not even need to capture its settlement) they will accept the piece proposal and most likely buy the piece with you with some gold – just as it was in reality. Wars in Medieval Europe were waged a lot, but often with little territorial gains and extremely rarely to the extinctions of your foe.

[husker9.2]

What faction are you playing? i've had factions give in and accept peace before with out destroying the faction.

[Henricus Rex]

I've had some excellent limited wars with Scotland as Dark Age England. Had one long, three way war in which England, the Scots, and Denmark were all at war with one another. That eventually ended in a peace deal with the Scots and the next turn I took York, thus kicking the Danes out of Britain. After that I fought two more limited wars with the Scots, one ending in a peace treaty and the second in which I made them a vassal.

[Mattress]

If you mean that the diplomacy isn't as straightforward as Stainless Steel, I'd agree. Try offering something to the enemy, perhaps a settlement to start off negotations. They might he honored and improve rep straight away but still they may decline the offer. Meanwhile it opens up peace talks because they changed their stance from known to "peace". You have to pretty foxy with diplomacy and your own factions reputations definitely plays a part.

Just some observations I've made... I've extorted oogles of gold this campaign as a faction on the bottom 15 power rankings, alliances, map rights extraidanaire this game, some selling for 3k. Sometimes the counter negotations went 8 or 9 turns but we still met an agreement. Most diplomacy I've participated in for a while. However, from my experience, in order to end a war, you have to give up somethings. Try taking another settlement from that faction and give it back in the peace talks. Or just give it out right. Offer gifts, try a new diplomat or wait a few more turns. Sometimes they may never declare peace unless you beseige their last settlement. Try different strategies, don't just open talks, and offer the general:

ceasefire
trade rights
tribute/lump sum

try this instead:
(if at war)

open talks:
gift -1500 florins

after they accept offer them your "map info" if you haven't in a long time or if not ever. Just keep them talking.

Now try to offer a ceasefire, 4 to 5k gold or a settlement and like 300/6. It should say "very generous" by this point if you felt them out right and viola. (this is based off your economy and how much the other factions wealth is. If you are broke and give them 500 florins of your 1000, they will be honored usually, unless they are unreliable.)

Often I find, the thoughtfullness behind offering the settlement ups my reputations with them on the spot, but they decline it.

Not always like that, but takes some finesse and def some getting used too and generally speaking, if the AI believes you are going to attack them, they won't sue for peace. Try becoming allies with the AI's allies during ceasefires if you manage it. Hope this helps.

[Emperor Basil]

AI diplomacy will always suck right up until robots take over the world.

[Mattress]

AI diplomacy will always suck right up until robots take over the world.

I laughed my ass off!!

[xeryx]

Ditto, and remember you faction standings and global standings play a part in your diplomacy now. The level of difficulty also matters now. If you are playing on VH, there will be very little peace for the human, from the AI. It is designed that way. If you are at war with a faction, and you want peace, you will need to offer up some gold and get them in a good mood first.

[4th Regiment]

Thanks Mattress, but I do not want to give towns and huge sums of gold when I am winning the war, and kicking their ass. It should be opposite, but they would not accept the white piece, or even small amount of gold..and they are looosing a lot

[Mattress]

Thanks Mattress, but I do not want to give towns and huge sums of gold when I am winning the war, and kicking their ass. It should be opposite, but they would not accept the white piece, or even small amount of gold..and they are looosing a lot

This sounds like:

"People should know when they are conquered."


and my reply is:

"Would you?"


taken from gladiator but I think it applies to this

[4th Regiment]

Well, those Germanic tribes were never conquered But thanks for the feedback, anyway

PS. Of topic, but I never liked Gladiator movie...yes it is spectale ...but too much borrowing ideas from Ben Hur and Qvo vadis.

[Mattress]

Well, those Germanic tribes were never conquered But thanks for the feedback, anyway

PS. Of topic, but I never liked Gladiator movie...yes it is spectale ...but too much borrowing ideas from Ben Hur and Qvo vadis.

I saw it when it came out in 1999 and I loved it. They don't make enough movies in that cateogory these days imo especially with the tech now they could go to some extremes. However, I read books. So books cover the spots movies miss. The imagination is the best movie maker.


Haha, and you are correct about the tribes. Varus knows oh so well that they weren't conquered.

[SicilianVespers]

Thanks Mattress, but I do not want to give towns and huge sums of gold when I am winning the war, and kicking their ass. It should be opposite, but they would not accept the white piece, or even small amount of gold..and they are looosing a lot

Actually, if you look at history it is the opposite of what you are saying. Most of the wars ended with the loser becoming the vassal of the winner, not being incorporated wholesale in the conquering country.

Charlemagne is the very big exception, but his conquests eventually went the same way...turning into Germany, Italy, etc....

[Emperor Basil]

I agree with 4th Regiment. The AI should know when it's beaten. The current system isn't harder, it's just more frustrating.

[xeryx]

I will do some work on vassals, as well, for this next version. On a good not, garrisons and stacks are much better in the 3.4 version. It isn't quite as aggressive but seems to make more decisive actions. I have delayed the vassalage system because it takes so long to test. It is time to get the vassalage system working.properly.

[xeryx]

There is now a much better vassalage system installed in 3.4, and it should work well..however..we may have to get a lot of testing and feedback for adjustments. I forgot to mention the the AI will NOT stay a vassal permanently. If you do not treat them right...they will turn on you, eventually..at least lets hope they follow the rules!

[Cooltosha]

Well, those Germanic tribes were never conquered But thanks for the feedback, anyway

PS. Of topic, but I never liked Gladiator movie...yes it is spectale ...but too much borrowing ideas from Ben Hur and Qvo vadis.

Off topic, I loved the Gladiator movie, but I agree with you 100% that it borrows ideas from Ben Hur and Qvo Vadis. It's in fact, a remake of "Fall of the Roman Empire" by Anthony Mann, which was based on Ben Hur almost completely, used the same costumes, same crew for shooting, only different actors (though Sophia Lauren and Charlton Heston did act together in other movies).

On topic, you should offer couple of "very generous" offers to your enemy and be refused. Then after a couple of such attempts they will probably accept.

Also, try this (and it works, it's my method). Capture their capital, and force them thus to relocate capital to some unimportant town or castle. Try also to nail a big force and destroy it, during the capture of the capital. Then offer it back to them for peace and money.

Finally, when you start a war, attack the capital first. Blitzkrieg method. Works 100%.

[Emperor Basil]

There is now a much better vassalage system installed in 3.4, and it should work well..however..we may have to get a lot of testing and feedback for adjustments. I forgot to mention the the AI will NOT stay a vassal permanently. If you do not treat them right...they will turn on you, eventually..at least lets hope they follow the rules!

I was just about to have a moan about the lack of vassalage. Glad to hear it's being addressed.

[xeryx]

"do you like Gladiator movies?" Think Airplane!!

[xeryx]

Vassalage in all it's Vanilla for did not work properly. These were the main problems with them.
#1) a faction became inactive
#2) a vassal could be one the entire game.
#3) there was no limit to how many vassals could be.

So this is what needed to be done, or will be observed in the next set of testing.
1) Vassalage only occurs during @war and cannot happen any other time. So it has to be treated as a "Conquered" state.
2) Ceasefire, or vassal that is the options. They must also have different weights, costs, and responsibilities, and need to be different for the AI than the human.
3) Since a vassal is conquered, they need to be able to "break free" at the right opportunity.
4) We have given the protector and vassal different opportunities to seek an agreement. Seeking a protector is out of desperation or fear. While a protector is out of convenience and power.
5) Costs and Faction Standings Levels have also been adjusted.
6) There are varying degrees of importance for this to happen.
7) RANDOM factors insure adjustment of frequency, for fair balance.

How does that sound? I know there will be alot of debate around vassals. However the main thing to do first, is long term testing to see the effects. Because of a faction becoming "inactive" as a vassal in vanilla..I decided to wait until now. I know everything in the XCAI was working 100%. Also the money received from a vassal will need to be looked at to make sure it is fair and not an exploit. Hopefully, buy making rules for a vassal to break free, it will eliminate most issues.

3.4 will be out this week.

[Emperor Basil]

Sounds great.