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  1. #1

    Default Simple Gondor tips...

    I've been accruing experience by playing lots of Gondor and Mordor games. The true irony in this was on the first day I played Mordor primarily to get a grip on how to fight them as Gondor and it took off from there. These tips apply to TATW set on VH/VH with no sub mods installed.

    Mordor will be Gondor's primary nemesis their destruction should be your all consuming priority but don't forget about your meat shield *clears throat* I mean your ally to the north. Rohan is basically a over grown rear car bumper it is what is separating you from a combined Isengard-Mordor invasion and a subsequent guaranteed defeat. Therefore you have in reality two objectives... 1.) Stabilize and secure Rohan's northern border with Isengard before the Warg droppings hits the fan for Rohan. 2.) Secure and fortify Annulond, West and East Osgiliath, and Cair Andros. Osgiliath is your primary concern in regards to securing your early game frontier. Like in the movies if Osgiliath falls you will leave open not just Minas Tirith to future attacks but also your entire east coast of the river Anduin. This means Minas Tirth and Pelagir are in danger of falling this is the bread basket of your military recruitment efforts you cannot allow this.

    As for Rohan you don't have to conquer and gift territory for them, I find the Rohan AI does well in this regard snatching a good 2-5 territories in the first 30 turns. What they will need help with is dealing with the numerically superior... But slow to get started Isengard. For, what I can only assume to be balance reasons, whatever reason the Rohan AI will ignore Isengard until they get too powerful to stop on their own. The Rohan AI is sluggish in producing troops and propping it's economy after it's headlong expansion so you'll have to step in and play Johnny Rico and take matters into your own hands. I was able to push back the Isengard offensive with about one to two less then full stacks of militia armies and Rohan support. In the end you won't have the time nor money nor troops to eradicate Isengard so take a play from the Warhammer 40K book and begin a campaign of isolation. The goal is not to kill Isengard but to block any avenues for reinforcements, trade, and military expansion. If you get the chance go in sack a settlement or two and get out. Then when you've solidified your borders with Mordor and Harad come back and give Saruman's minions a prison, I mean, Gondor style beatdown. But this will be a little latter in the game maybe much later so you'll most likely have access to your professional soldiers by then.

    As far as dealing with Mordor it's much the same as Isengard except, they have trolls later on in the game, they are much more aggressive and dead set on killing you and not your ally, and they have many times the troops as Isengard. Isolation won't work here you'll have to find somewhere safe to grind Mordor down at. I like to take Minas Morgul and the Black Gate and then pull a Thermopylae on them. But this will be much later in the game and you'll need a lot more troops then with Isengard for obvious reasons (just concentrate on getting this far and it'll become clear why :XDD). Except for the occasional flanking attempt that has to go ALL the way AROUND Mordor and it's protective mountains you should have little to worry about except the all too common frontal counter attack. And if you hamstring Harad, Rhun and maybe put a few caps, I mean arrows, in the traitor Saruman's head you should have a easy time taking Mordor's virtue.

    So now your asking how do I go about this? It's not easy but this is what worked for me. I took Gondor and after securing my western and eastern expanse I did two things. I came to the realization that with the exception of East Osgiliath I have no chance of holding anything on the eastern side of the River Anduin. Two, I drawn a series of imaginary lines all across Gondor itself and prioritize each city and gave each sector a overall theme. I wanted the Eastern most cities to be my primary food production center and so I geared them toward food and trade I also did this because they have the easiest access to Rohan itself which will be your primary trade partner until later in the game when you expand and discover and contact new people. I made Dol Amroth a secondary military center and Pelagir my Naval headquarters. Minas Tirith for obvious reasons I made my administrative and primary army headquarters. The center cities I made into transportation hub focusing most of my infrastructure work such as roads there. The island off Gondor's southern coast the one half to Harad's Umbar I made the headquarters of my later to be made southern fleet with a strong fleet here I almost eliminated the land raids from Umbar and saved Pelagir and whatever that city before Dol Amroth. I also came to grips that until late in the game my armies would be primarily militia folk so I made a point of focusing on structures with passive armor, weapon, and experience bonuses so the troops there would be that much tougher and thank god I did it to. Osgiliath had a special function it became my Stalingrad, or my Armageddon or Cadia (more like a Cadia because of the type of enemy to be fought) for all you Warhammer 40K people. It was where I drew my line and swore they would never take a step past this point. Almost 90 turns in and I still kept that promise though by my own admission it took divine intervention at certain points. One funny case saw me outnumbered 2 to 1 by two Mordor armies numbering around 8400 I had less then 3900 (I had multiple armies) And for reason still unknown the Mordor armies charged and without engaging melee turned around and made a tactical retreat. I have no idea why. I guess because the AI realized that win or lose my 3rd army group would arrive soon (like one or two turns) and would only kill them anyway since most of the troops were hardcore veterans from my Isengard campaign retrained and ready for redeployment.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Whoa, well, nice advice. Congratulations though, on vh/vh I found it impossible to field more than two armies at the beginning, and only one of these even aproached a full stack. Now in turn 65 after conquering most of harad I'm still unable to field much more than three armies, and I only just started some real building. I didn't find Isengard threatening, after invasion took Edoras, Rohan started to defend quite well, but it maybe because of the fact that most of their soldiers died invading Minas Tirith but it may be just another proof how entertaining this game is- in my game Harad proved to be much more dangerous than Isengard, that's why I went south

  3. #3

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    I would assume that you did do infrastructure upgrades pretty high on your list of priorities for your trade and farm cities right? because paved roads double the value of trade. Also, how proactive were you in getting trading rights early? I found as the dwarves that getting trading rights with everyone no matter whether we were connected helped, because the moment we were connected that cash was flowing. For your situation those eastern ports could probably link up with the wealthy elves to the north and that could be quite a big boost to your economy.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Nice guide + rep, i can second you on the whole Isengard thing as i didnt bother helping Rohan, instead i was plowing through Mordor then an invasion was called on Minas Tirith and OMG Isengard came and cut my empire in half and once Minas Tirith is lose the game becomes a hell of alot harder especially when your split

  5. #5
    Hallow's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Pffffffffff Rohan.. I let the useless curs die. If they can't carry their own weight then what use are they to me? The one use Rohan did was that I plowed through the region of Mordor pushing the faction north into Mirkwood before they lost. Now I have Harad and Isengard on the south and north. Harder but far from impossible, Harad only has 3 settlements left actually.
    "Romans regarded peace not as an absence of war, but the rare situation that existed when all opponents had been beaten down and lost the ability to resist."


  6. #6

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    @Gary: Not very proactive at first. Because of where Gondor starts out the only real trade opportunity close by was Rohan and in the beginning I didn't need multiple trade partners because trade with Rohan combined with prioritizing local infrastructure and managing taxes left me with just enough money to do what needed to be done. I also tried to wait and see who I should trade with. When the time came I ended up trading with the Dwarves and Dale. Eriador wouldn't trade with me and the Elves had yet to get into a position where trade would be possible (because their was a hostile faction separating us). After I laid Isengard low and had a noticeable presense in the area north of Rohan I had new options open up. By the time I got around to trading with the Elves I had some trouble with Harad we were in the middle of fighting a series of short bursts of war. We'd go to war and fight, several turns later they sue for peace. And this went off and on for a while. But Harad was bleeding itself dry. Khand was still too far away and indifferent to pose any kind of threat and Mordor got to a point where they holed themselves up and placed themselves on house arrest. The game is still in progress and every now and then they will attempt to dislodge me from the Ithilien territories.

    Yes, eventually trade became a more pressing matter then maintaining a army. Though creating a fleet to patrol Harad's coastline allowed me to trade with far away coastal factions without having sea trade cut.
    Last edited by Outlawstar15a2; May 20, 2009 at 10:29 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Interesting new approach to a gondor campaign. +rep
    Never used it, as it appeared to me to be inevitable to focus on harad and mordor first. (Still works fine though^^)
    (More or less my current status on VH/VH (i'm like 3-4 turns further in)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Rohan failed pretty soon. Fighting off Isengard at Tarlangs Neck & Aldburg atm

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|>Deus ex Machinegun<|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  8. #8

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallow View Post
    Pffffffffff Rohan.. I let the useless curs die. If they can't carry their own weight then what use are they to me? The one use Rohan did was that I plowed through the region of Mordor pushing the faction north into Mirkwood before they lost. Now I have Harad and Isengard on the south and north. Harder but far from impossible, Harad only has 3 settlements left actually.
    Ha, yeah in my gondor campaign I made the mistake of helping them save their precious edoras from an invasion (while losing several of my own because of my forces being cut on the 2 fronts) and what did i get in return !? NOTHING! no help no reward for defending my Allie (and you wonder why gondor didnt come, Theoden!)
    Parcus es vinco of fecal res
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    I'm not trying to brag here. But this thread does seem to have gained the approval of the community and I don't mind doing another one like it. I was wondering if I was to do another of these which faction does everyone want next?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    My first "real" campaign is/was Gondor as well, even if I am at the point where I know I will "win" if I continue, and it's around turn 70. Using Darth's submob, the rest is vanilla.

    The thing is, I tried to turtle. I love to turtle, I hate to rush. But when you have beaten a couple of Mordor and Haradrim armies, using nothing by milita units against their decent units, some castles and towns are just too dang open to ignore.

    I did try to stop once I had Minas Morgul/Ithil with my main second tier army and my experienced militia army outside the black gate. Imagine my surprise when I realize there is a landbridge southwest of Pelargir and there is a full stack of Haradrim (which I noticed by sheer luck of all things) on the coast.

    Another army raised, pressing into Harad lands after that to stop the red tide. Several Haradrim naval invasions as well, which is a true treat after suffering through ETW's lack of them.

    And then all hell broke lose with trolls appearing in a stack at Minas Ithil. 24 olog hai are not so fun (or awesome to watch if you're sadisitic) the first time you fight them unprepared. But Mordor is all but beat now and Harad seems near crippled, even if I took it slow.

    Semi-useful tips;

    Gondorian archers win the day, every day. I use nine of them, eight infantry units, one general and two militia cavalry. Cookie-cutter composition that works too well. The rangers might seem better but I have won at least two huge battles using my archers as melee infantry toward the end, something the rangers would have failed to do.

    Tie down trolls with militia in loose formation, then pepper them with arrows and use your general to charge them repeatedly. I've yet to find a gondorian unit that can go toe to toe with any success, even if the citadel guard can hold them without breaking. Pelagir marines might do the trick but they are too freakin' rare and hard to replenish at a distance, and the same goes for Lossarnach axemen (which are two-handed and die like flies compared to units with a shield).

    At some point, send a stack and a half to aid Rohan. I have had one evil invasion called in my game and it was on Edoras. I defeated the Mordor and Haradrim crusaders, but the Ootmm stack reached the target and took it. Rohan then lost several territories east of Edoras to Isengard as well, which I now hold. Edoras was taken and gifted back for 1000g for 10 turns (not much but I'm not that cruel to my trusty allies). Isengard was sued for peace for 10000 gold as well, which is an obvious lie.

    Expanding south into Harad is easy as pie. They will likely send naval invasions onto the island as well as south of Dol Amroth, so either splurge on navies or keep garrisons ready to deal with it.

    And at that point I feel like you have won.

  11. #11
    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    I am liking this advice. I need it too!

    Starting a Gondor campaign was a bit of a shock after sweeping all before me as the High-Elves.

  12. #12
    Jelven's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Nice work Outlawstar15a2!

    I find that roads, markets, farms and ports are essential in all your kingdom, if you want to support the heavy weight of army upkeep later in the game.
    What are your thougts about this economic expansion?




  13. #13
    Hallow's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jelven View Post
    Nice work Outlawstar15a2!

    I find that roads, markets, farms and ports are essential in all your kingdom, if you want to support the heavy weight of army upkeep later in the game.
    What are your thougts about this economic expansion?
    a-m-g you took my sig, you bastard!
    "Romans regarded peace not as an absence of war, but the rare situation that existed when all opponents had been beaten down and lost the ability to resist."


  14. #14

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jelven View Post
    Nice work Outlawstar15a2!

    I find that roads, markets, farms and ports are essential in all your kingdom, if you want to support the heavy weight of army upkeep later in the game.
    What are your thougts about this economic expansion?
    Start early and start before you got the rest of your militia units. Early in the game you might be able to suffice with upgraded roads and one trade partner but it won't last that way. Aggressive early economic expansion seems to be key to pretty much everything else. Also securing sea dominance is a nice perk in this mod to. I at first ignored the sea except when I needed to deal with Harad's Corsairs. But I began to realize that the same sea trade rules from M2TW still applied, I looked at the map and figured well maybe they were removed but I did see a noticeable increase in funding after I expanded into sea trade.

  15. #15
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Im in turn 85 (witha 93 year old Denator!) and I have had the same problem.
    I took Cair Andros and W-Osghiliat.
    After numerous attacks I took E-Osghiliat.
    They called an invasion against it and happend.
    Stacks stacks stacks...
    After a very very heroic battle I lost the city, so I loaded and auto resolved and I still own it haha.
    But my souther border is almost completely unguarded, so when 4 fullstacks of Haradrim came in I killed them all with 1 unit of cavalry militia (sorry they besieged Arnach, Pelagrim and treatned (wooden) tarnost.
    I took 2 settlements and pillaged them, made a ceasefire but now I'm in war with both Harad and Mordor again (oh and OOMM and Rhûn). (I make like 5K a turn with room for expansion, however I do need more and more soldiers.)
    I recently took Eyen something and I'm recruiting my first units of rangers now.
    Soon I might take the far westen settlement (west of your western border) and I might hire a ship and sail up the Aduin to take Minas Anduin to weaken isengard to help Rohan.
    I did not help rohan, they are doing quite well. they recapured Edoras form harad and they still fight Isengard.
    The Dwarves control the whole north and the High Elves have the nr.1 Military.
    The Silvan's seem treatened however by Rhûn and Mordor so I must make haste to take Minas Anduin and maybe Hennet Amon or whatever.
    Miss me yet?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    In my opinion Ithilien Rangers are overrated. Their only slightly better then Gondorian Archers (exactually after watching the two of them in several battles I think the GAs have better stopping power.) due to their slightly longer range. And they die too easy. I like Gondorian Archers because they are also somewhat decent in light melee due to their armor just don't use them to spear head an assault. I do have several IR units in my eastern most provinces.

  17. #17
    Hallow's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlawstar15a2 View Post
    In my opinion Ithilien Rangers are overrated. Their only slightly better then Gondorian Archers (exactually after watching the two of them in several battles I think the GAs have better stopping power.) due to their slightly longer range. And they die too easy. I like Gondorian Archers because they are also somewhat decent in light melee due to their armor just don't use them to spear head an assault. I do have several IR units in my eastern most provinces.
    Rangers are brilliant for ambushes, 1 full stack of rangers and hide them in forests where you just know the enemy is gonna pass by, they'll be dead before they even know what hit em.
    "Romans regarded peace not as an absence of war, but the rare situation that existed when all opponents had been beaten down and lost the ability to resist."


  18. #18

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    As Gondor I notice if you bloody Harad's nose early they immediately sue for peace. I won a Heroic victory intercepting an invasion army heading for Edoras (not that the damned Gondor AI would ever do that for me when I played Rohan) and immediately got a cease fire request followed by trade rights. That should settle your southern flank enough to handle Mordor. Harad is just a nuisance, Mordor is the real threat.

    Keep hammering them ceaselessly, intercept every little Orclet army even if its only one or two units and not only will you quickly gain experience you're just whittling them down as you go. The Osgiliaths are the key. Take them and hold them, use them as your breeder cities for units and refreshes then make a big push for Minas Morgul and if possible the Black Gate in as close to a simultanous assault as possible. For the Black gate taking the castle north of the Osgiliaths is key. Not only does it provide you with troops but it denies Mordor a possible back door attack on you as it is the only other Anduin crossing close to your cities.

    Once you have (and hold) the Black Gate and Minas Morgul you should be in good shape but expect either an invasion to be called on one of the Osgilliaths or Harad to get uppity with you. In order to deal with Harad you should try your best to scrape together an invasion force to take the southern city right at the head of the land bridge. My best experience is to actually get this invasion force some experience by taking Andulond at the very end of your western provinces. It usually results in some money from your nobles to boot.

    Then race this force east, swell it up with some troops from the castle in the center and the southern cities before crossing the land bridge. Use this city as a "Thrompolaie" (I know I butchered it) to hold off advancing Haradrim.

    The one thing you're going to run into is a constant issue with money because you have no time to actually expand on your infrastructure with this strategy so bear that in mind. You cannot afford to lose to many units during this portion of your offensive and refreshing units is a pain with the culture issues once you venture into Mordor so the Osgiliaths are key to importing fresh troops. It's expensive but go for paved roads as soon as possible from the Osgiliaths to Minas Ithil.

    When in Mordor proceed very carefully, attack, hold , consolidate and rinse and repeat. Be very methodical. Mordor is not the place for crazy rapid attacks because you'll either get swarmed by random stacks or they'll end run you and take the city you just left behind you as you advance deeper into Mordor.

    I haven't gotten much further yet in my most successful campaign but this is a good starting point.

    In terms of units your archers are the cornerstone of any offense and defense. A good stack can disintergrate orc units before they hit your lines and with Orc morale being so brittle if you can get 1 or 2 units to rout you can usually get the whole army to rout in short order.

    Don't select END BATTLE unless you're truly in bad shape. Select CONTINUE and mop up every unit you can with cavalry. If you're desperate for cash you can ransom them or my preferred method - execution thus robbing Sauron of more troops to hit you with.

  19. #19
    Olifantenstaart's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    I don't know why, but playing as Gondor Isengard just won't attack me. Perhaps it is because they already have 2 fronts: Eriador to the north and Rohan to the east. Another one in the south really could drive them into the sea in the west

    Anyway, this allowed me to chase Mordor out of the Black Lands. They now have regained lots of territory near Dol Guldur.
    But whatever, I went south. Harad. After many, many years, Harad only has 2 cities left, which I will capture soon. After this happens, I will have only 1 big front remaining in the north. That front is nice: it has the white mountains, Mordors northern mountains, and Rohan for protection. Since I'm still not in war with Isengard, all my attention can go to Rhûn (already my enemy since I captured Khand) and Mordor.
    Harad's defeat isn't a present, however. All my attention needs to go north, Mordor is besieging me there, and WTF... once again, the're so strong?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Simple Gondor tips...

    Front no.1
    Take both Osgiliath, make sure Cair Andro is in the hands of a rebel, a friendly, or yourself. After which you just need to hold the constant flushing out of troops from black gates and minas morgul.

    Front no.2
    Gather some force and move down the river. Need to disturb the Harad. Otherwise will get pwned easily afterwards.

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