Poll: get rid of grappling hooks

[tarloch]

following other posts i would like to get CA to remove grappling hooks from the game. my apoligies if this has already been done
please vote your choice

[green tea]

Perhaps they could be left in, but given to more special units like Pioneers or so- perhaps this will eventually done by modders (if, what I hope, it is moddable). But Fortifications are always a little bit strange in TW. I don´t know why anyone should ever let his peasants/slaves work for years/decades on large walls that crumble to pieces when hit with three onager stones/cannonballs in 3 minutes. The fortifications in the Empire Era were especially build to hold against cannons. I have seen some of them in Italy or the Netherlands, they are quite impressive. All this "walls crumble to dust if a cannon crew spits in their general direction/ grappling hooks"-stuff just changes what could be a simulation of historical sieges into something entirely different, more like scenes from a very bad, unrealistic action film.

[eatme]

A minor issue with the hooks among the myriad of other requests/problems/wishes doesn't deserve that much attention imho.

[tarloch]

yup minor indeed and as such they should be able to fix in a jiffy if they so desired hence the idea of getting opinions

[Skyline Pete]

This is actually incredibly easy to mod yourselves and I plan to do it myself soon, except I'll be leaving the hooks on Grenadier units to give them that assault mentality.

However, if enough people want it I shouldn't have any problem making a quick mod for vanilla users that removes the grappling hooks from all infantry. It would only really work with mods that don't effect the units_land_stats file.

[alteropptatt]

This is actually incredibly easy to mod yourselves and I plan to do it myself soon, except I'll be leaving the hooks on Grenadier units to give them that assault mentality.

However, if enough people want it I shouldn't have any problem making a quick mod for vanilla users that removes the grappling hooks from all infantry. It would only really work with mods that don't effect the units_land_stats file.

Can't vote, but I agree. Giving hooks to only certain units would improve things. If forts were defendable, I woudln't have a problem with it. Everytime I defend a fort, the AI spams hooks from all sides while I try to man the cannons to maybe get off one shot.

[ElusiveHonor]

This poll is a little unrealistic in what its trying to accomplish.

Unless CA wanted to release siege battles in a later update, I don't believe CA will be doing anything about grappling hooks in a patch. Forgive the misunderstanding if this is a call to modders, but the chances of CA getting rid of grappling hooks are slim to none.

Since we're talking about sieges, perhaps we should think of ways to make them a bit more interesting. As of now, they are a bit lame, with or without grappling hooks. (Though I suspect they will be a bit better without grappling hooks, and some major defense buffs for the walls. Cannons are pretty powerful in this century, but it should take a considerable bombardment to bring down walls, and make breaches)

[Gundug]

I have been playing a campaign with grappling hooks removed from most infantry types (I just left them to certain special units). Siege battles are much better, since swarms of troops cannot simply climb over the walls. The computer controlled units in the campaign map not equipped with cannon are also limited to starving out fortified positions, even with a much greater force. The only problem I see is that the computer factions barely recruit artillery, so they have a tough time.

[alpaca]

The primary problem if you remove the hooks is that the AI apparently can't siege properly - sometimes the turns left counter won't decrease on turn end for them.

That said, I abhor them as they make forts almost completely pointless.

[this_is_sparta]

The primary problem if you remove the hooks is that the AI apparently can't siege properly - sometimes the turns left counter won't decrease on turn end for them.

That said, I abhor them as they make forts almost completely pointless.

how so? how are forts pointless when you can just shoot them when they come up from the tops in a single slow line of death? forts do have a point dont they?

[alpaca]

how so? how are forts pointless when you can just shoot them when they come up from the tops in a single slow line of death? forts do have a point dont they?

How they should actually be used is that you stand on top and shoot down at them or push their ladders off, not shoot them when they come down from your walls. The whole capture the flag thing is totally moronic, too.

Anyways, my primary concern is that you can attack any fort the same turn you lay siege to it on the campaign map and then all those big walls don't have any use on the battle map, either, which makes building them really quite pointless.

[Skyline Pete]

The primary problem if you remove the hooks is that the AI apparently can't siege properly - sometimes the turns left counter won't decrease on turn end for them.

That said, I abhor them as they make forts almost completely pointless.

Have your players got a good track record on this?

Edit: Actually on second thought, perhaps we could start by taking the hooks off units such as militia because I don't know about you but I can't picture basic militia storming the walls of a fort.

[Rotaugen2009]

Let's face it. In reality, if all a unit had was grappling hooks and the men had to climb up with a full pack and musket, they would move so slow that a child with a bag of rocks could hold them off. Ladders would be much faster, and the graphic that shows on the wall when you move a unit there is a ladder, not a hook. And it should still be very tough to move guys up ladders. Forts should be very difficult to take without a breach. That's the way it really worked. And the way the AI will just stand in the middle and let you kill them is silly. Right now, forts are pretty much pointless. That being said, I don't see the grappling hooks themselves being a high priority item with CA at the moment. I would rate the overall siege AI higher.

[alpaca]

Have your players got a good track record on this?

Edit: Actually on second thought, perhaps we could start by taking the hooks off units such as militia because I don't know about you but I can't picture basic militia storming the walls of a fort.

Well for me the siege counter always decreased so far. I usually take artillery though, the walls are breached very quickly.

[this_is_sparta]

i say keep the hooks, as stupid as it is i enjoy the dumb AI running around the walls with their white long legged tights spinning the hooks and trying to get up. It makes me laugh so hard cause it looks so stupid and when they get up "all perfectly clean might i add because in total war every uniform is perfecty clean there is no mud or dirt in gentlemens wars"

they just get shot as my regiments form up a line in front of the hooks, shoot and then melle if they get more than 10.
THen they just run away and i laugh so hard all the time in fact im going to do a custom seige soon just for reminding me how dumb those gentlemen are.

[Sardonicus]

i say keep the hooks, as stupid as it is i enjoy the dumb AI running around the walls with their white long legged tights spinning the hooks and trying to get up. It makes me laugh so hard cause it looks so stupid and when they get up "all perfectly clean might i add because in total war every uniform is perfecty clean there is no mud or dirt in gentlemens wars"

they just get shot as my regiments form up a line in front of the hooks, shoot and then melle if they get more than 10.
THen they just run away and i laugh so hard all the time in fact im going to do a custom seige soon just for reminding me how dumb those gentlemen are.

Sorry, I don't play TW to bust my gut from laughter.
If I want to laugh I'll watch a Ben Stiller movie. I think the grappling hooks should go.
The sieges in general (and the goofball AI) are the main reason this turkey has only been played for 1.6 hours since the day it was released.

[Kinjo]

Grappling hooks are a fix all to a lack of ai programming, I think the only unit that should be able to use grappling hooks is light infantry/skirmishers. Sieges where not fought like this in the 18th century. Walls were breached by artillery or scaled by ladders or both at the same time. The term Forlorn Hope probably best explains sieges of this time period.

As of right now the ai just runs around the fort and attacks the back corners most of the time with maybe one attack to the front. This is boring and it is so predictable I really hate fighting the same battle over and over again. In a perfect world the ai would bring artillery and use it to breach the walls, once there is a breach the ai would then send in its Forlorn Hope for the assault. At the same time it could be assaulting other sections of the wall with ladders and light infantry with grappling hooks.

[PGeo36]

I say keep them in, but have them available to light infantry or grenadiers only.

[Qandow]

The entirety of siege mechanics need to be tossed which will never happen.

Grappling hooks - think about it. Do you really think someone could successfully crawl up a grapling hook line, burdened with their combat gear, while having an opposed unit at the top? What are the guys doing up top - waiting for the climber to hop on the wall and gain his feet? He would be stabbed or shot before he ever got a chance to let go of the line and when he fell he would take a bunch of his buddies with him. Grappling hooks with an opposed force up top just cannot work.

Capture the flag mechanic - Absurd here just as it has been absurd in every TW game. However, it is worse here since there is no intervening space (city) where combat can take place and a defense mounted. It leads to ridiculous Ai behavior where the attackers will get to the flag and just stand there while being annihilated or on defense the Ai will just stand there waiting to be slaughtered as well.

Star forts - if star forts were as easily breached in real life as they are in ETW, no nation would have ever built a single one.

Wall defenses (cannons) - what are thsee for, decoration? They hardly fire at all and it is nearly impossible to get your men to man them.

Removing the grappling hooks does nothing in of itself since the entire siege mechanic in ETW is beyond repair. What we have here is an epic fail on all counts.

[fluffstalker]

The entirety of siege mechanics need to be tossed which will never happen.

Grappling hooks - think about it. Do you really think someone could successfully crawl up a grapling hook line, burdened with their combat gear, while having an opposed unit at the top? What are the guys doing up top - waiting for the climber to hop on the wall and gain his feet? He would be stabbed or shot before he ever got a chance to let go of the line and when he fell he would take a bunch of his buddies with him. Grappling hooks with an opposed force up top just cannot work.

Capture the flag mechanic - Absurd here just as it has been absurd in every TW game. However, it is worse here since there is no intervening space (city) where combat can take place and a defense mounted. It leads to ridiculous Ai behavior where the attackers will get to the flag and just stand there while being annihilated or on defense the Ai will just stand there waiting to be slaughtered as well.

Star forts - if star forts were as easily breached in real life as they are in ETW, no nation would have ever built a single one.

Wall defenses (cannons) - what are thsee for, decoration? They hardly fire at all and it is nearly impossible to get your men to man them.

Removing the grappling hooks does nothing in of itself since the entire siege mechanic in ETW is beyond repair. What we have here is an epic fail on all counts.

Haha pretty much.. perhaps we should have a poll that says:

"Do you want CA to remove siege battles period?"

Seriously though I no longer build fortifications at all.. its too painful to watch the AI walk in single file to a random flag in the middle of the square and stand there. I defend on the field to give the poor buggers a chance.