whatever happened to Roman Senate missions?

[Capricornius]

hi, quick question here...in vanilla RTW, when u play as a roman faction, the senate occasionaly gave u missions to complete...resulting in either getting rewarded for doing the mission or penalized for ignoring the mission..anyways, i noticed that in ExRM there is the absence of these senate missions...what happened to them??

[florin80]

Did you see any senate faction? It went out with the senate missions.

[Scutarii]

You need to have a senate faction to have senate missions. ExRM's Rome is united, so no missions... United Rome is so much better anyways.

[DraeKlae]

Plus, senate missions aren't historically accurate and, since when you play as the romans YOU are the senate, it doesn't make much sense anyway.

[despot_of_rhodes]

It would make sence to have a senate faction, even for one purpose: to simulate the fact, that though Rome used to act like a single and united state ( at least in the early republican timeframe ), there were many factions within the republic, and your goal as a player is actually to become the emperor ( at least, if you play the grand campaign ), and this was only possible, if you, to keep it simple, overthrow the senate and defeat all your rivals within the roman faction.

The missions could be changed to what they were historicaly correct ( no idea, if they are hardcored, though ), and the competition within the roman superfaction would also be a great thing to simulate the latter civil war leading it from republic to empire. It would also be a very good way to simulate the republican way, with 2 consuls etc. wich cannot be taken by your FM, but are given due to abilities ( or influence etc.) by the senate.

All in all, to play the united roman faction is surely efficient, but it takes away lots of cool feelings from vanilla, even if the original game was historicaly very inaccurate.

Just my 2 cents.

[Arkaeyn]

I agree with Despot, with one addition. The thing I liked about the multi-faction/Senate setup was that it set the player up to be competing with him or herself. You wanted to be working your permanent allies, helping them along, until suddenly you were fighting them. In the vast majority of grand strategy games, once the player reaches a certain level of critical mass after the start of the game, they pretty much know how the game is going to end.* This added some flavor to the middle and end of the game.

Plus the civil war was an important part of Roman history, and playing vanilla always made me excited to read Rubicon again.

RTR does a lot of great stuff that I like more than vanilla, but I do kind of miss the superfaction.


*The original Master of Orion managed to avoid this, as does Civilization IV to some extent, and my favorite mod for it, Rhye's and Fall of Civilization, almost entirely eliminates it. One day, when I'm a strategy game designer...sigh.

[Capricornius]

So, in reality, there rly wasn't a Brutii, Scipii, and Juii Roman faction?

I agree about how vanilla RTW made the game more competitive and interesting with the Senate missions and the 3 roman factions...but in ExRM, i kinda like how Rome is just 1 faction and not divided up, except for the fact that it underwent civil war after Julius Caesar "died" in 44 B.C. Oh well, you can't have your cake and eat it too

[Arkaeyn]

There were political parties, which often focused on individuals and/or families. They were not semi-hereditary family-based fiefdoms based on geographic areas as the game portrays.

Roman aristocrats were elected to serve as various leaders within the government and military. Politicians were also supposed to be generals. In order to achieve these political aims, factions and parties sprang up. The highest rank of a Roman was consul, which was a year-long position as head of the government. There were two consuls elected at a time, though, which led to various political alliances. Eventually this ended up with three civil wars in a 50-year span or so. Sulla and Marius fought over the consulship, though Sulla won pretty easily. He became dictator, then actually stepped away and let the Republic function again. Later, Julius Caesar, Pompey the Great, and Crassus managed to form an alliance which consolidated most political power in their hands. Crassus got himself killed, and the balance of power shifted, which Caesar, representing a military/radical change faction, fighting Pompey, who oddly became the symbol of a conservative/Senate faction, in the next civil war. Caesar's heirs then fought over his power a few years later, with an imperial system being created.

Caesar's greatest conquests were in Gaul and Britain, thus the Julii. Pompey went east successfully multiple times, so he's supposed to be the Brutii. 150 years earlier, Scipio Afrianus led the destruction of Carthage and the conquest of Iberia, so that's what that faction is supposed to be. But there was no "Scipii" faction after his death.

[rhaudch]

The only instance in Roman history approaching family autonomy is that of the gens Fabia. Livy relates how three hundred Fabii noblemen undertook lone war against the Veii [a rival faction of the Early Republic] without support from the rest of Rome. Despite early successes, they were eventually defeated and annihilated almost to a man. Not only are the three familial Roman factions ahistorical, their declensions aren't done properly either. It should be rendered Julii, Bruti, Scipiones (if one is a stickler for those things).

Overall, early Roman politics were governed entirely by the Senate and other public officials; glory was won through service to the state rather than service to oneself. Patrician families were notable and powerful, but in a way roughly analogous to American political families today - yes, the Kennedys have significant political capital, but they are not a country or government unto themselves. So RTR is historically superior in that regard.

I do rather miss Roman vs Roman combat though. The civil wars are such an interesting period in classical history - I wish there was a better way to reenact them than to make ghost factions with Roman recruitment lists and give them half your provinces.

[Capricornius]

Yeah, that WOULD be pretty cool...'cept I don't like the idea of a spooky "ghost" faction taking over some of my hard-earned provinces .
- I think that maybe the dev. team who did RTW vanilla were aware that the Scipii faction was rly the Scipiones but they decided to go with "Scipii" because it rhymed with the other 2 Roman factions and just sounded better. My guess is this: RTW vanilla is ahistorical because the dev. team and producers of the game believed that if they simplified core aspects (such as history) the general public wouldn't need to think too hard when they play (and complain about not understanding any of it ).

All in all, if it was possible, there should be a mod that keeps much of the good stuff in RTW, but still make it very historical...and i'm aware ExRM does this but they threw out some cool things such as the whole "Missions" aspect and the ability to fight another faction of Rome (in a civil war) hmmmmmmm......