[Multi AAR] History of men

[dmesa]

Nice battle!!! i liked the way carthalo crushed the campanian cavalry, they fell like flies =P

[Banzai]

Im addicted.

Awesome AAR

[Fixiwee]

PYRRHIC victory!

Anyways, nice intro to the 2nd punic wars, eager to see Hannibal get going!

Hannibal who? Is that the skillless and drunken general that lies dead in Spain slain by Scipio?


I don't wanna be a smart***, but it's not a phyrric victory. The Romans got crushed and Carthage won. Mazana was a phyrric victory for the Romans .

Nice battle!!! i liked the way carthalo crushed the campanian cavalry, they fell like flies =P

I wish I had made a better picture of how they flee, but yeah... my butt was kicked in that battle. But then again, I did roleplay Cottas military inexperience by not attempting any effective strategic moves.

[SonOfAlexander]

Well I thought, seeing as the Carthaginians lost most of their forces as well as killing the Romans, if it's not a Pyrrhic victory then it's pretty bloody damaging to their war effort

[Fixiwee]

Well I thought, seeing as the Carthaginians lost most of their forces as well as killing the Romans, if it's not a Pyrrhic victory then it's pretty bloody damaging to their war effort

Oh I see your point there.
I guess for the war effort its a stalemate for both sides since the Roman and the Carthaginian war power has been damaged.

[Fixiwee]

Where do you run to now, Quintus?
by Sarah Buehler, 2007

Chapter Twelve

„I have killed Cotta!”
Quintus was running like mad through the bulky Macchia, he was thirsty beyond any means and his feet were bleeding because of the thorny bushes.
“This can’t be true! I have killed Cotta.”
He was still in his chain mail, his face was dirty and unshaven. The soldier and historian left the battle fleeing. He and his group were chased by a dozen heavy riders after the battle when they reached a small wood with thin trees where Quintus tripped, fell down from the edge of a cliff.
And then there was blackness.

“I have killed Appius Aurelius Cotta!” was the first thing when Quintus opened his eyes, regaining conciseness. It was late afternoon; Quintus got up and realized that he had led Cotta to certain death. “I could have said no back then” he mumbled to himself. He started to remember that it was some years back in Rome where this whole disaster started, when Cotta asked him to help him repeat history – simple and easy as he said to Quintus.

But now Cotta was dead. And with him thousand of Romans and their Italian allies. Quintus didn’t realise that he had a mental break down.
“…killed Cotta” he was repeating it over and over again.

While Quintus was moving through the lands of Carthage he started to dehydrate under the hot African summer sun. Being out of his mind, he didn’t realise the circumstance that his mouth and lips started to dry terribly. Being out of air he couldn’t run anymore, though his mind seemed to focus for a short moment and he thought if this would be the end of him.
He walked up a rise and noticed that he had reached the coastline. By the gods! There was a small village of eight houses too.
The Roman soldier thought he was running towards the village though in reality he was limping like a wounded man. Someone was shouting something and at first Quintus did not understand anything. He thought that some Carthaginian peasant was insulting him, but then he became aware that the voice was speaking in Greek. He stopped and looked up, a young man was standing a short distance away, with a thin beard that still had blank spots on the face. For a moment he wondered what Greeks did in the lands of Carthage, but then he remembered that these people use to flee from their homes because their women are so ugly and the food so horrible.

For a moment Quintus smiled. In this moment he remembered that he was still alive. Then he passed out. “So thirsty…”

Loosing consciousness had become quite the habit for Quintus. When he woke up from his dreamless slumber he heard several people talking, becoming aware that he was in one of the houses. They all spoke Greek with each other, guessing that a Roman soldier would not be able to understand them. But Quintus was a historian educated in Greek, enabling him to follow the conversation. They were arguing what to do with him. Roman slaves pay well on the bazaar of Carthage. On the other hand this man had not done any harm to the Greeks. For a moment Quintus became focused. His chain mail was gone, but his Gladius was on the table close to him. Then it struck him again: “Cotta. Dead. 20.000 mean. Dead. Why? Because of me. Because I promised to lead Cotta to Carthage. Because I promised to lead three legions to victory. Dead. All dead.”
His heartbeat increased.
He became terribly nervous.
His clear thoughts were overtaken by devils of madness again.
He was loosing control.

„I have killed Appius Aurelius Cotta!” Quintus screamed, leaping upwards from the bed, grabbing his Gladius. The Greeks, some five men and two women were arguing too much to react quickly on the furry of the Roman. Before they could overwhelm him by their sheer number Quintus had the blade in his hand. This short sword was excellent to thrust quickly at multiple enemies.
Quintus stabbed the first man in the shoulder.
The next men, an elderly man with a bushy beard got a very deep cut in his arm.
With the same swing he hit a dark haired woman in the stomach.
She went down screaming in terrible agony while her husband ducked down to cover her body trying to cover her from further harm.
The man with the thin beard that found Quintus quickly grabbed him by the wrist, blocking any further attacks with the Gladius. But a roman soldier was skilled in close combat.
Quintus used his whole weight to ram the young Greek against the wall with his bare shoulder. This move surprised the opponent who tumbled while his ribs broke with an unpleasant sound.

“You can’t stop me you Carthaginian pigs.” Quintus screamed, triumphing over his captors. No one tried to oppose him anymore.
Having lost any sense of reality, Quintus ran out of the house where a few Greeks where staring at him without taking action. The Roman was running to the dock, entering a small fishing boat.
He turned his head back to the crowd where the Greeks gathered to look at the madman. “I have killed them. It was me! Don’t you understand? I didn’t mean to!”
They didn’t understand. He spoke in Latin. But they were too scared to approach an armed man.
He released the rope holding the small vessel, gave it a push and started to rudder with a paddle. Quintus left the village behind him. Turning his head westwards he saw the sun going down, the few clouds on the sky turned into a bright orange. He stopped paddling. The air smelled salty. “What point does it all make now?”
There he sat, in a small fishing boat without food or water. To Quintus it didn’t matter any more.
“I’m tired of running.”
Quintus closed his eyes.

End.

[sinner]

that was simply amazing, very well written...

[Fixiwee]

Thank you. I tried to out some tension into the last Quintus update.

[gamer20]

I love the Total War games and all there mods, and I hope to become a historian one day so I will pay attention to this aar.

[gamer20]

very nice.

[Fixiwee]

The next update I am currently preparing turns out to be quite long. Should I split up the text (it has two seperate parts) and release them with a few days inbetween or should I update it as a whole?
My guess is that the longer the update, the less people will read it as a whole.

[Biggles]

I recommend you split it in two, for the reason you just stated.


Btw, hope you guys like my new signature

[Fixiwee]

I recommend you split it in two, for the reason you just stated.


Btw, hope you guys like my new signature

Yeah I think that is the best. Thanks for the advise. The first part should be up in a few hours.

Is the sig the from the "garfield comic without garfield in it"?

[Fixiwee]

“I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious”
-Vince Lombardi

Second Punic war climax
(Part 1 of 2)

Silanos – Historiai
(written about 130 BC)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Silanos was a greek historian who lived from 200BC to 120 BC. He came to Rome [under reasons that have not happend yet - this will be edited]. His account on the Roman history are of high value since he followed the pragmatic histiography like Demosthnes of Ancyle.

Book VI

[…] The invasion to Africa turned out to be a complete disaster for the Romans. It clearly shows the weakness of the political system by electing an incompetent military leader just because of his legacy. At the same time the following years also show exactly the strength of the Roman system.
The Roman annual reports state that Spurius Cornelius Sulla returned to Spain as a proconsul in 556 AUC [198 BC] battling the Bastetani, another barbarian group under their king Ultu. The battle was small and probably didn’t exceed a total of 10.000 men, although no sources are specific on the numbers nor the exact location. This victory enabled Sulla to prepare further attacks on Romans biggest barbarian rival – the Carpentani. Having learnt important lessons from his campaigns against the Carpentani in 554 and 553 AUC [202/201 BC] he prepared for a longer and more daring attack on Carpentani soil, where Novantutas Carmacoi the son of the defeated Mutorke Carmacoi was still king. Little facts survive this campaign. But the remaining facts state that Sulla spent the winter in enemy territory fighting small skirmishes and promoting the Romans cause to local tribes. In 554 AUC [196 BC] he eventually conquered Baikor and captured the Carpentani king. The battle of Baikor cost the Romans a high amount of 10.000 men, but the barbarians threatening the Roman coastline of Spain were defeated. It is said that Sulla enslaved a great amount of people to Italy and plundering the Iberian cities.





But this victory came at a great cost. Meanwhile the Carthaginians moved a huge amount of troops to Iberia in Martius of the same year [March 196 BC]. Strengthened after the victory at Sabo, Carthage was planning to defeat the Romans in Iberia too. The Carthaginian army was lead by Carthalo Carales, the victor at Sabo and Hamalcar Aleria, a younger but talented military leader. Some Roman sources claim that Carthalo had an amount of 90.000 troops under his command, but my guess would be that he had about 65.000 troops under his command. Nevertheless the number of troops was a tremendous threat for Sulla.

The first move was made by Hamalcar, who lead 30.000 men towards Carthago Nova, once a Carthaginian city in the middle of Maius [May]. There he defeated a legion of 6.000 Romans under the command of Manius Spurius Turus and 25.000 Iberians, mostly Constetani and Edetani allies at the battle of Baria. Hamalcar was exploiting the absence of Sulla who had only recently defeated the Carpentani king. This attack came to a great surprise to the Romans who didn’t anticipate an attack by this magnitude.
Carthago Nova was once more in the hands of Carthaginians and this development was alarming the Senators in Rome. At the same time Sulla, realizing the threat of being cut off from his costal cities charged his military most talented legate Tiberius Cornelius Scipio Asina, the son of Tiberius Cornelius Scipio Asina triumphant at the battle of Ildum, to defend the coast in his absence.

That the Romans reinforced the Spanish coast with two additional legions within months can be seen as a crowning achievement to their logistic and military understanding. Whenever needed, Rome recruited huge amount of soldiers from their Italian allies and reinforced any losses.
After conquering Carthago Nova, Carthalo started to push northwards against the city of Arsé in late Qunitlis [July], while Tiberius Cornelius Scipio prepared to stop this offensive at the city of Akra Leuke [modern Alicante]. On the 5th of Sextilis [August] it came to the battle of Akra Leuke, where the young Scipio faced the elderly and seasoned Carthalo.



Both sides had about 20.000 troops, but Scipio wisely used a bridge as a chocking point to engage the superior enemy army. The victor of Sabo underestimated the cunning Scipio and tried to break through with full force. What happened next is till this day subject of great debate. I have travelled to Spain to listen the local accounts, I have spoken with Senators related to the Scipiones and I have researched various texts and letters stored in the libraries and found about 8 different versions of the battle. Some say that Scipio killed Carthalo with his own sword, another popular account is that Carthalo, seeing his man being slaughtered killed himself on the battlefield. For this matter we can only presume that the circumstances will for ever remain a myth. In the end we only know that the young Scipio defeated Rome’s greatest enemy, but didn’t defeat the enemy army. Most of the 20.000 Carthaginians retreated safely after Carthalo was killed.

In fall of 554 AUC [196 BC] the remaining Carthaginian troops reorganised and prepared for winter in Carthago Nova. They still had some 60.000 troops, while the Romans steadily reinforced up to 45.000 men. Sullas next move was a bold and risky one.

[War lord]

This.IS.THE.BEST.AAR.EVER!

[Banzai]

is it dead? :/

[SonOfAlexander]

Uh, its only beeen 'off' for a few days. He's just making the next update Banzai, calm down

[Fixiwee]

Haha don't worry. I planed to update part 2 on Tuesday, but I installed Windows 7 and I didn't have time to finish it. Anways, the update should be up today. Still have to review it and edit the pictures (there will be more pics then in the first part).

Also let me take the chance to say thanks for all the comments and relpies. Even if I don't answer them all, I enjoy every one of them.

[Banzai]

phew, I am afraid I have to meet a traumatic-stress therapist if this AAR dies. :p

[Fixiwee]

Second Punic war climax
(Part 2 of 2)

Fabius - Ab Urbe Condita
(written at about 50 BC)

Who was Lucius Fabius?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lucius Fabius was a Roman historian who wrote a universal history of Rome. He started with the legendary myths of the founding of Rome up to his present day. Fabius portraits a lively version of the Roman history and he is more interested in various details rather then a critical approach on the matter. Reason for that is the time Fabius was living in, the Roman civil war is on going and Fabius experiences what he calls a "decline of morality". His work was to remind the Romans what virtues made the Rome strong and how they dealt with certain flaws in society. Besides that his work can be considered as very inaccurate with a lack of sources. The modern historian Brian Lewis said about Fabius "He is master of lies in history. But that does not mean his stories do not have a kernel of truth in it".

Book XVI

On the 24th of September Spurius Cornelius Sulla returned with his legions to Scipios camp. The young Scipion greeted his commander with all obligatory military procedures. Dismounting his brown stallion Sulla raised his hand to his victorious legate: “I salute you young Scipio. You really live up to your family name.”
“I did what was expected. If Rome would ask me to travel to the end of the world, I would” the young victor replied.
For now the two men would eat, drink and relax. The weather was still very warm and there was plenty of food for the whole army. After a few days Scipio asked his commander what his next move was. Hamalcar, who had taken over grand command over the troops, was still a big threat. Sulla thought about the situation for quite some time and then came up with another daring plan.
“If I was Hamalcar and had over 80.000 men at my command, what would I fear most? I would fear that my supplies grow thin and that my enemy, the Romans, would attack me in my most weakened state. So my good Scipio, I plan to attack them during the winter. During that time supply becomes rare while the climate here still allows me to attack the enemy. I have done the same thing against the Carpentani and I am also able to do so against the Carthaginian. This way we can easily use our smaller numbers against a larger, yet starving army.”
Scipio who always was up for a military challenge agreed to the plan, as did all the other legates under the propraetorian commander. Preparations were made in all of October, stocks filled and the soldier trained. Early November the weather was still warm enough when Sulla gave command to start moving south against Hamalcar in Mastia. Four Roman legions and several Iberian allies marched forth to face an enemy superior in number.
The first legion was commanded by Sulla, while the second was lead by his legate Tullius Cornelius Marcus. The other two legions took another route to maintain more supplies on the road and were lead by Tiberius Cornelius Scipio Asina and Decimus Papirus Pulcher.
The Carthaginian forces were separated into three armies lead Hamalcar Aleria, Abdeshmun and Asdroubas. When they realised that Sulla was forcing them into battle in November Hamalcar decided to counter the attack and launch his troops quickly against Scipios and Pulchers legions to separate them from Sullas army. The young legate was furious when he realized that Hamalcar was about to attack him on the 13th of November and that Sullas troops where out of reach. He ordered his best messenger to send word on the situation and prepared to defend the position until Sulla would come to help.

Scipio gave an important speech about one hour before the battle: “Men, I know that our surprise attack has failed and that a great number of troops is about to charge our position here. I know that they are great in numbers, but we can hold out here. They will find that a Roman legion is a hard nut to crack. Though we lack the numbers, we are the greater warriors, disciplined and trained in the arts of war. My grandfather defeated the Carthaginians in Sicily, my father did the same here in Spain and I already killed their most skilled leader. We can defeat this army here, we will stand, fight and we will win.”

Hamalcar rushed into the battle trusting that his great amount of troops would be enough to destroy a Roman legion. Scipios and Pulchers legions were lined up in a small valley where they hope to control the enemy movement.



The Carthaginian leader knew that he had to strike fast and without mercy, because by now Sullas legions where already on the way to support Scipio in battle. He gave instructions to his military tribunes and signalled the attack. The troops started to charge 300 meters away from the Roman line.



Immediately the battle changed into close quarter fighting and the huge number of troops turned this battle into a terribly bloody clash with men dying left and right.



Scipio pressed hard against the enemy so he could not organise the encirclement of his own legion. By constantly pushing forward the enemy was not able to flank the bold young legate. Time was of the essence and for two hours Scipio pushed and pushed demanding the maximum of what a soldier can endure in battle.





It started to look grim for Scipio, who had already killed about 15.000 enemy Carthaginians, but also lost 5.000 of his own men. Asdroubas brought another 20.000 men to make the final strike against Sulla when a messenger brought news: “Legate Scipio, Propraetor Sulla will be here within half an hour. Surely the gods are giving speed to the feet of his troops.” This news inspired the remaining Roman soldiers to hold their lines. “For the people and the senate of Rome! We fight or fall!” could be heard all over the grim battlefield.





The vast and skilled legion of Sulla entered the battlefield, ready to relieve Scipios army and push back the Carthaginians. During the course of the battle the fighting shifted to the nearby woods making Roman cavalry moves impossible. Finaly the Carthaginians were defending.





The fight was going on for hours, all the hatred between the two cities was unleashed in this engagement. The battle line dissolved into fighting of smaller and greater groupings.



The struggle went on like this for some further three hours and no commander knew what was going on exactly. It was simply too many soldiers on both sides to maintain a clear chain of command. Although the Roman centurions remained a clear head and led their troops well by their best will. At the 8th hour [2PM] Asdroubas was killed in one of the pockets.



An hour later Sulla and Scipio finally met on the battlefield. By now most of the Carthaginian troops were dead or have fled. Despite this Hamalcar and some 10.000 men were still fighting against the now larger Roman army. Sulla pushed his military tribunes to outflank Hamalcar and encircle then. The tenth hour [4 PM] finally brought the decision when the Pedites extraordinares [Italian elite troops] encircled Hamalcar, brought down his horse and killed the proud Carthaginian leader who said “It was not enough” while dieing.





The rest of the Carthaginian troops fled. After nearly 6 hours of fighting no Roman soldier brave and bold had the power to chase any of the fleeing enemy. Sulla had won a decisive victory with Scipios help.


A history of Rome, by Prof Alfred Kennard, 2002 New York

Fabius account on the battle of Mastia tells us inaccurate numbers, but with Silanos version of the battle we are able to reconstruct the casualties of the battle.

Carthage:
Soldiers: 60.000 – Lost: 50.000

Rome:
Soldiers: 45.000 – Lost: 20.000

This battle was the largest and bloodiest battle in the second Punic war. Rome smashed the Carthaginian war effort to pieces. The young Scipio and the already popular Sulla became war heroes to end the second Punic war. And indeed, the next spring of 195 BC a delegation under Senator Lucius Cornelius Dolebella went to Carthage to meet with the Suffet Carpophorus to dictate their terms of peace.
Carthage had to give all the remaining outposts in Spain to Rome and pay a large sum of gold. The long second Punic war was over.
In a conclusion this war secured Rome’s position as a Mediterranean superpower. Both militarily and economically Rome established itself as a “global player” in a wider sense. While Carthage still remained strong it lost a prestigious and costly war against its arch enemy.

The second Punic war had long-lasting effects on the Roman society and it somehow connects with the later Roman civil war. Rome expanded its provinces in foreign parts of Europe that changed the political tradition (more Quaestors and Praetors) and rules of taxation (Stipendia). In a wider sense the first problems with ruler ship became apparent. The young generation of Sullas and Scipios lead and ultimately won the war, without being able to actually have leading positions. The Senate skipped the problems by assigning de facto leading positions like the Propraetor, but that did not actually solve the problem. This is one issue that would play a bigger part later on in the civil war.
The real heroes of this war were not Carthalo or Sulla, it was the Roman allies in Italy. Without them, the Roman Senate could not have build up such a large quantity of troops. The allies, for now, stood loyal to Rome.